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FAA Issues Ground Stop Advisory for Alaska Airlines

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The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration issued a ground stop advisory on Wednesday for Alaska Airlines, saying: "All Alaska mainline and subcarrier flights ground stopped." (www.msn.com) Altro...

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bahalana
Keith Brown 7
I was a C-130 loadmaster back in the 80's. I did almost all load planning and weight and balance by hand. We did have some software at larger terminals to assist aerial port in pre-planning, but in the end, it was just me in the cargo compartment with a weight and balance form and my Mark1A brain to make sure all was loaded accordingly and do all the calculations, and up to the A/C to sign off on it for every flight. I understand though, with a major airline operation, that's a lost art and not practical (if you want to make a profit). But anyway, I also hate the spin on this article, I was also an FAA air traffic controller for 23 years at a major Center, and the AIRLINES requesting a ground stop on THEIR own aircraft happened a lot, it wasn't ordered by the FAA themselves. While the NAS has definitely deteriorated since I retired, the fear mongering in the media is just getting ridiculous (he says as he swears never to set foot on a commercial airline again! LOL).
tundralife
Bob Moseley 11
I can’t agree with you more,” the fear mongering in the media is just getting ridiculous.” Their fear mongering extends well past aviation alone.
bahalana
Keith Brown 6
Yup. There are concerns, certainly, I have them, but I also have critical thinking skills. They're just trying to sell ads.
whip5209
Ken McIntyre 3
Fear porn sell advertising. The media outlets are NOT necessarily in business to tell the truth. They are in business to make money.
whip5209
Ken McIntyre 1
SeanAwning
Sean Awning 13
Weight and balance calculations software. Wow. Glad they caught it before.

Alaska Airlines ground stop lifted, delays ongoing
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/17/business/faa-ground-stop-alaska-airlines-flights/index.html
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 7
I am surprised more issues in aviation have not reared their ugly heads due to software issues. The sole reliance on digital anything will have dire consequences one of these days. It is nice to use software, but one should be able to do the math to double check it.
sparkie624
sparkie624 3
True... But in today's day and time, it is impossible to get away from... Lots of Advantages and Disadvantages
mbrews
mbrews 2
Agree. But IMO this is a trend all through-out Alaska Air software. Headquartered in the Tech hub of Seattle, they favor technology almost for its own sake. Reliability and simplicity take a back seat.


Hope its not echos of 737 MAX software developers, working in Silo's for programming the MCAS claptrap.

cratermoon
Steven Newton 6
Is this another problem with the same DynamicSource software that caused the two tail strikes back in February of 2023?
mbrews
mbrews 4
Good point. What happened in the February 2023 Alaska tailstrike incidents (Yes back in 2024) was -

The gross weight calc was about 20,000 to 30,000 pounds light. With total weight of incident jets at 150,000 to 170,000 US pounds, the error was enough to skew the engine thrust and speed settings. Both planes headed down the runway with less power and at lower speed than they should have. And with the jets electronics set with incorrect (too low) weights, the pilots rotated too early. Pilots were misled by wrongly calculated speeds for rotation.

Inspector Clouseau would look at any W & B software provider
bentwing60
bentwing60 8
GA weight and balance was so simple, fat girls over the wings and skinny guys in back!

Oh, and don't fill all the seats and the fuel tanks.
xtoler
Larry Toler 4
That's how I would mive pax around in our J41's at Trans States. Just kidding, but the thought had crossed my mind a few times.
wooky93
chris robinson 7
Larry, you're showing your age lol. Im from the STL area and when I got out of the Air Force back in 98 I got a part time job as a mechanic working for Trans States while I went to school to get my A&P license. I liked the J41's but didnt care for the J32's. It seems like forever ago at this point.
xtoler
Larry Toler 5
I got out of the USAF in '94 as an Air Transportation Specialist (605/2T2). I became a F/A for Trans States in '03 at the KRIC crew base after I got laid off from KBR. The one time my AFSC was relevant in the civilian world. I transferred to STL in '05 after my wife and I moved to Denver and our first daughter was born. It was fun until my old lady clipped my wings, lol.
sparkie624
sparkie624 4
J41 with TransStates... that has been quite some time ago! CRJ550's now days.
xtoler
Larry Toler 3
Technically "Ho Jet" under Trans States Holdings, lol.
bchandl13
Brian Chandler 3
They didn't really catch it before. This is the second time they have tried and failed to implement the upgraded software and both gave bad Vspeeds for takeoff which caused early rotations and tail strikes
mbrews
mbrews 1
Good post, Brian. Adds some important background. IMHO, seems to be an ominous trend for Alaska airlines.

Concerned that they've added software complexity, but has resulted in safety risks. Would be useful to hear from some Alaska 737 drivers. For their views about their company EFBs.

Why wasn't it properly fixed since the February 2023 mistakes ?
dee9bee
dee9bee 10
Hey guys, you're bringing up memories here. At my first commuter airline, (twin Cessnas) everyone would have to personally check in. Without their knowledge they were standing on a scale and their weight was being recorded. As the PIC, I received my load sheet with their weight. At boarding, I'd just eyeball them and board them accordingly.

At my next airline (Beech 99) we would do the same thing, but if you were full (15 pax), once you had loaded everyone's carry-ons into the belly compartment, you would stop the last two pax from boarding until the Captain had started the right engine and brought it out of feather. Sometimes, the Captain would start the engine early and you, the Copilot, would smell like Jet-A for the rest of the day. Those were the days!
dtgriscom
Daniel Griscom 2
Why wait until the engine was started and un-feathered?
dee9bee
dee9bee 3
Because the two last passengers were to be in the rear-most seats. There was a chance that the plane could tip back on its tail. With the right engine out of feather, problem solved. As I recall, this procedure came from management, so I assume it had actually occurred at some point. Yes, those last two passengers gave me some strange looks when I told them that they couldn't board just yet.
ColinSeftel
Colin Seftel 4
This is not the first time that Alaska has encountered issues with its load and balance software. See https://www.flightaware.com/squawks/view/1/7_days/popular_new/95561/Software_bug_at_Alaska_Airlines_caused_2_tailstrikes
from February 2023.
watkinssusan
back in"the good old days",there were charts that were used to calculate estimated passenger weights for adults and also for children,and approximate weights for bags within the limits..head counts were done,number of bags and any cargo (although on the smaller regionals that was not usually a problem)and then of course fuel.the captain was given a copy prior to departure,and if changes needed to be made,say,less fuel or moving passengers seats,it was done then..computers were used,but not to the extent they are now..as i said..this was in"the good old days"..!i am sure the passengers on alaska and horizon didnt understand exactly because everyone is still uneasy due to the issues with boeing aircraft..
xtoler
Larry Toler 3
We still had the charts when I was flying in the '41's and ERJ145's. I mostly worked the 145's. Our fleet wasn't very big, so I knew the aircraft we flew out of RIC pretty well. It was pretty common for me to move pax when we flew light. We would play a game. I would move pax after my zone count, then report it to my pilots and see if I was right after they would use the chart. I was usually spot on. Of course, I would explain to the pax in simple terms why I would shuffle them around and most were understanding after that. It also helped, I showed my enthusiasm for my job as a flight attendant and aviation as a whole.
It also helped that I was required to sometimes load plan USAF cargo aircraft, especially being phase 2 qualified on C141B's and C130's in the absence of a load master. Yes, the good old days, lol.
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
Don't forget about that old E6B!
dodger4
dodger4 1
The link to this page is a blank page
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
I just tried it and it worked for me without any issues.. Loaded quite fast. The server may have glitched and now back on line.

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