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  • 41

Remember the minister who wanted you to donate so he could get a G650?

Aggiunto
 
You may recall Creflo Dollar, who was asking for 200,000 people to donate $300 so he could buy a G650 because his old jet was so old and unsafe that it went off the runway. The UK AAIB released the report on what happened to his plane -- the crew confused center line lights with runway edge lights and began the takeoff roll perpendicular/across the runway rather than down it. for old times sake, you can watch his fundraising video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIobdRNLNek (assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk) Altro...

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joelwiley
joel wiley 32
PF: D*** that's a short runway
PNF: But did you see how wide it was?
flyinpro
thank you for that, hahahahahaha!!
babyracer
babyracer 2
For crying out loud!! How am I supposed to breathe when you go and make comments like that? XD
avihais
Yoda would say - survive breathe must you
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
My apologies. Remember to inhale. I misread the report at first and thought they went straight off the side, which prompted the post.
babyracer
babyracer 3
No worries mate, your comment was very entertaining and the huge laugh I got from it was exactly what I needed.
pr0ject
El Kabong 13
avihais
Never seem before - just about wet mysel
siriusloon
siriusloon 16
One of my first jobs in radio back in the late 1970s was the Sunday morning shift. I had to play numerous 15- and 30-minute shows from such individuals as Oral Roberts, Percy Rockwood, etc, etc all morning long. I always had the feeling they knew they were snake oil salesmen and were winking at the audience the entire time they recorded their shows. Today's crowd of radio and TV evangelists seem to actually believe what they're saying, which, unfortunately, makes them sound more convincing the believers that they scam blind.

I recall how Oral Roberts (Senior, not Junior) broke format one day and spent the entire 30 minutes begging for money (well, he always did that), but he kept saying "don't tell us where you want us to spend it, let us decide where the need is greatest". I'm sure the fact that "60 Minutes" had nailed him the week before and reminded their viewers that if you specified your donation was to be used to buy Bibles for penguins in Antarctica, that's what it had to be spent on and ol' Oral hadn't been following the wishes of his donors. By getting people to send donations without any strings attached, he could add to his fleet of fancy cars, buy another jet, build more homes, etc.

A plague on all of them.
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 7
If you can see only one line of lights on a runway you believe to have three lines... what the hell are you doing beginning a takeoff roll?!?!
sportfish
sportfish 6
VERY interesting report. The investigators seem to be pretty understanding of how and why the pilots made the mistake they did. But it's one thing to be the 10th pilot to make a mistake under given circumstances and conditions . . . and quite another to be the first! But from the report (among many other things noted): The information on the aerodrome chart used by the crew, and the source of information in the UK AIP, suggested that the aircraft would be required to taxi in a straight line from J1 to the runway and then make a right turn onto the runway heading. In fact, in order to taxi from J1 onto the runway, an aircraft must: taxi in a straight line; follow a curve to the right
onto runway heading but still displaced to the right of the runway itself; turn left towards the runway; and then turn right again onto runway heading.
avihais
And the lord said give unto myself.
LarryQB
LarryQB 4
Reminds me of a DC-8 simulator check ride I might have failed but for advance warning. The guy before me busted because he took off on a simulated runway when the vis. was below takeoff minimums. After airborne the fed failed an engine and when the checkee asked to go back to his departure point the fed advised him the field was below landing and takeoff mins. "just as it was when you took off." After that the check ride went downhill fast. Knowing what was coming I was able to refuse the takeoff for my check ride until the vis. came up... then asked for a takeoff alternate. In a simulator you really don't expect to see much so I can see how my predecessor got taken. All that said, just assume everything and everybody is trying to kill you (motto of we helicopter pilots) whether you're in the sim or real life.
colifis
"just assume everything and everybody is trying to kill you"

Same motto us motorcyclists have.
Moviela
Mr. Dollar is the best argument to start taxing churches. Perhaps Pres. Trump can work on that.
RRKen
Mr. Dollar is the best argument to refining the existing laws just as was the case with the Church of Scientology a few decades ago. Eliminate the loopholes that allow luxury items such as aircraft.

Taxing churches would have a very negative backlash outside of large congregations. Small rural churches could not afford taxation of property, and would go out of existence. Without houses of faith, society itself will crumble.

And I believe there is sufficient case history that the taxation of places of worship impedes religious freedom, and thus unconstitutional (it would violate the establishment clause and free exercise).
pr0ject
El Kabong 11
It's easier just not to patronize religious organizations.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 2
At this point there doesn't seem to be much in the way of laws in place to enforce.
beilstwh
beilstwh 10
The church should be allowed to house the priest in a humble rectory, but should have to pay taxes on any luxury car, large homes, or air craft. They are not needed for the functioning of a church.
Kairho
Florida did a nice job (yeah, out of character) with a similar problem: how to encourage new homeowners into the state with a tax break while not extending it to huge mansions.

Very simple solution: exempting the first $xxx of assessment from taxation. They started out with a $25k exemption which meant that someone building a $55k house would pay taxes based on $30k, very fair. But build that $250k mansion and you still paid on $225k of it.

The amount has since been increased (to $50k?) but it still works fine and should be extended to churches as well.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
Every person or organization ought to have some skin in the game.
MikeMohle
Mike Mohle 1
I will second that!
Ruger9X19
Ruger9X19 0
That is why we need the Fair Tax.
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 1
I don't favor taxing churches but there certainly should be some scrutiny when so much money and such expensive assets come into play.

When was the last time such a question came up with Billy or Franklin Graham?
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
I just wonder, WWPS?
soule11
from http://www.religionnews.com/2015/08/18/franklin-grahams-salary-raises-eyebrows-among-christian-nonprofits/


...."(RNS) Franklin Graham’s annual compensation of $880,000, .....

"By contrast, pastor salaries at the nation’s biggest Christian churches are much lower for all but a select number. Only 3 percent of churches with more than 1,600 people in attendance pay senior pastors more than $300,000, said Warren Bird, research director at Leadership Network. At the other extreme, a recent study by the National Association of Church Business Administration found that the average American pastor with a congregation of 300 people earns a salary of less than $28,000 a year."

In a 2011 comparison of megachurch pastors’ salaries, two senior pastors made $1 million and $1.1 million. Others were a fourth to less than half of that."

great graphic, below: Franklin was MORE (as director of the international org) than ANY other CEO of an international relief agency, including many with larger budgets.

http://ogpdn1wn2d93vut8u40tokx1dl7.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/thumbRNS-GRAHAM-SALARY081715a.jpg
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 0
Ratings by Charity Navigator:
Samaritan's Purse - 98.79
Save the Children - 90.29
World Vision - 78.65
Food for the Poor - 84.35

After a review of a few Form 990s, that meme appears to be including expenses in the total. Graham's salary is $443,192 based on the December 2014 filing. By comparison, the other three salaries are much higher with a small expense reimbursement. Apparently, they stay home and don't go far from the office.

Additionally, Graham is the face of Samaritan's Purse. It is he who appears on numerous news shows and wherever he can get an audience to promote their efforts. He's very hands-on in their efforts making the trips and overseeing the work to be done.

The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association is rated at 96.47. From that operation, Billy Graham draws $158k and Franklin Graham $205k.

Check out the homes of those discussed. Graham's is very modest. He has a large piece of property but it's mostly for facilities operated by the association. Then, go look at Joel Osteen's home. Dollar's home. It gets insane for so many of these other names.

As for memes, the thing I hate about them so much... they never cite their source. I could design a very convincing meme that makes any airline the best ever and another the worst... and with no citation of sources, no one is the wiser of how credible that data is.
avihais
Most churches provide a very modest house for the head. i.e. in the same neighbourhood as the followers. They have an income related to that of the medium of the state. On the holiday break they can save and do what they like and buy what they like. They are devoted to others and not them selves as they should be.

Evangelists preach to the masses for money. Their "income" is from drawings form the business "church" and pays for their house, toys and holidays. The drawings are just personal expenses and all tax free. So income is just drawings and all tax free. The church will again tax free pay for the mega jet and the poor that buy into sending money from credit cards will "save their sole".

KennyFlys
Ken Lane 3
While I find that true for many, it is not true for all. Compare Graham to the majority of such.

When BGEA was much bigger and Graham was making the world circuit, even then he was drawing only $80k per year. To my knowledge, his book revenue goes to the association and he draws from that.
soule11
"Franklin Graham, who is also the international president of the British charity SPI, has caused controversy in the US by branding Islam "wicked, violent and not of the same god"." via the Guardian,

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2002/dec/18/guardiansocietysupplement7


I don't really mean to pick on Franklin. There are many who are probably worse, including the subject of this article. But, I think most of the big time religious people (and a lot of the small time ones as well) are thieves, crooks and don't quite live up to their stated ideals.... noting like the God Biz if you want to make money....
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
And the congregations seem to favor support of religious freedom for Christians more than for other religions. As G. Orwell said "all are equal but some are more equal than others".
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/de486b3d64154d0baae9f04fba0a4094/ap-norc-poll-religious-rights-us-christians-most-valued
KennyFlys
Ken Lane -1
You mean the left is going nuts over Graham being realistic and pointing out how dangerous Muslims are in this world.

By the way, what religion was the pilot of the German airliner that crashed?
telc2008
Tom Clark 3
Muslims aren't dangerous, but ignorance and hate it.
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 1
Let's see...

Muslims are the second largest religion after Christianity but it's the fastest growing and expected to exceed Christianity by 2100.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

Then there's the fact more than 51% of Muslims prefer Sharia Law. Just how great is that? They believe women should not be allowed to drive, can be beaten by their husbands as a form of discipline, daughters can be killed if they dishonor their family and non-Muslims should convert, be enslaved or die.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

So, you were saying?

Oh, and Pew Research is cited just as often by both sides.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Simple answer, but powerful...
gayinspandex
I have no faith in people like Creflo Dollar and I am a Christian, but he is a scam artist. If he wanted to help the world so much there are a lot of good used C-130's available Or maybe a good Dash 8 or Dash 7.
And as for his pilots, they should have had their certificates suspended.
And if his "old" jet was so unsafe, why was it still flying and had a current airworthiness certificate?
Creflo Dollar should be called Bullshit Peso
GaAubie
Ken Hardy 3
I live in the Atlanta area where Creflo and his Church are located, Creflo is one of those " $$$ Evangelists " who live well off the ignorance of his low information flock. I say if his " Followers " are stupid enough to give him the millions to but a G 650, let them, after all the people working to build Gulfstreams in Savannah would love to take the money as as a GD stockholder, I would like it to.
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 3
I lived in Stockbridge when it was made known how much Evander Holyfield gave to Dollar's empire. Then when I learned Holyfield was filing bankruptcy I had to wonder how much Dollar helped him out.
linbb
linbb 3
See it was old and unsafe nothing to do with who was trying to fly it. Just get that money in so he wont have to use regular airlines.
b100pilot
No sir, you are incorrect. The pilots attempted to takeoff aligned with the runway, but unfortunately lined up on the right edge lights instead of the centerline of the runway which did not have centerline lights. It's in the report.

"The aircraft lined up for takeoff in conditions of reduced visibility. The crew believed that the lights they could see ahead were runway centreline lights when they were actually runway edge lights. The aircraft began its takeoff run but ran off the paved surface and onto grass.
The commander closed the thrust levers to reject the takeoff."
paul8626
Paul Smith 5
... Oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends...

Or in this case,

Oh Lord won't you buy me a G650,
My friends all fly Learjets, I must make ammends
BluegrassFlyer
He had to outdo Benny Hinn and his G450.
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 1
He has a Lear 31. So, there were two jets unto one was destroyed.
chalet
chalet 4
I wonder what his church did to him once this accident was revealed, did they tell him "You are fired"
babyracer
babyracer 1
BURN THE WITCH BURN THE WITCH BURN THE WITCH......
chalet
chalet 2
Does anyone know what plane is this gracious "minister" flying, hope he did not have enough donations money to replace the broken one and that henceforth he is now forced to ride in buses.
kd4yrp
Gulfstream III
chalet
chalet 1
No, I meant to say which aircraft he is flying now since the GIII N103CD was totaled. I bet he is not driving or being bussed around, is he.
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 1
Under the same registration name, they also have a Lear 31. N103TD
paul8626
Paul Smith 1
103TD... Top Dollar?
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 1
I hadn't caught that but it would not surprise me!
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
His wife's initials.
chalet
chalet 1
avihais
Please send all your money to The Church of the methylated spirits. The lord has spoken to me and said the church needs a 787 to pursue the message of god.
paul8626
Paul Smith 3
I see the accident as a sign from God.

Creflo, he took your aircraftaway but did not injure you because he feels you don't deserve one!
BobRose
BobRose 5
WHAT? You folks don't think that a fine, upstanding, pious man doesn't deserve to have people pay for his multi-million dollar airplane, allowing him to fly around the world spending their money all the while enjoying himself at their expense, and wasting their money for side trips and vacations and.... Wait a minute. That is Obama... never mind. ;)
captaindotcom
A check of the old Jep shows no center line lights installed, yet both pilots "expected" cl lights. Pretty basic runway fam. Just sayin'.
captaindotcom
I might add: Praise the Lord and pass the money....
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
They were probably passing the dutchie...
patpylot
some much for commercial "Christians"
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
Do NASA forms work in foreign countries? LOL
cm5299
Chuck Me 1
The ministers god likes the best have their own airports.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/4T2
cm5299
Chuck Me 1
Almost onion like video of him asking for donations for a second (yeah 2nd) Citation X.
http://uds.ak.o.brightcove.com/1532789074001/1532789074001_4430122711001_CX-Mission-3-CX-No-2-Web.mp4
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 2
And, people were bitching about Franklin Graham having a King Air 350... that he often flies, himself!
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
Actually flew a trip for this vain glorious guy back when he was slummin around in a Lear 35. Ahhh yes the rich get richer!
jelf48
Jim Fowler 1
Yeow, even Grampaw Pettibone would have enjoyed having a tirade over this incident! No, I did not send $300, either. However, can someone still say..."Jumpin' Jehosaphat"??!!
jonbob585
By the grace of God.. Oh, and the experience of the flight crew. Let's not forget the countless single engine training these guys have done for their type rating. Wonder where the grace of God was in all the events that ended in tragedy.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
And if only he had the G650, the good reverend could have interceded in those latter cases

[This poster has been suspended.]

2018paulrobbinx
But yeah, this is sick.
davidrbarnes
I have to disagree. I think it's fair for them to be paid commensurate with their education and experience, just like you and me. I don't think it's appropriate or necessary for them to have their own personal G650, however.
2018paulrobbinx
Not all are dirty money sucking scums. A lot don't get paid, or at least not enough to live.
linbb
linbb 2
Don't know any poor ones as all the ones I knew when it came time for car tires, work on it or such it was expected that you donate your time and materials. And quite a few never want for anything as its donated by the church members.
lincolnhyde
My father was an Episcopal Priest. We truly did not have enough to live on until he went back to school to become a catalog librarian.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Those dumbasses didn't notice their heading didn't match the runway heading. Like Oxlong says, you get what you pay for!!!
conmanflyer
.... The runway edge lights would be parallel to the runway center.... the heading should be the same for two parallel lines....
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Yeah, I read it wrong, I thought they lined up perpendicular to the runway. They still need a refresher on lighting and markings...
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
Roger that, I don't buy any part of that story. Look at this picture and tell me they didn't run off the right side of the runway. I believe one of the displaced threshold arrows is visible behind the aircraft.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Gulfstream-Aerospace-G-1159A/2545472/&sid=94a66c7d71e5874c76cdf14eeb5ceb94
Ruger9X19
Ruger9X19 1
That picture kind of proves they were parallel and offset to the right of the runway, you can see the tracks from the gear in the dirt on the right side of the photo and it looks like the right main bogged down and stuck forcing a turn to the right and snapping the nose gear and bending the left hand main gear door.

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