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What Can New Pilots Make? Near Minimum Wage

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Finally someone is pointing at the problem of pay instead of pretending like the country needs to make more pilots. There is a large supply and it's finally time the demand rises. (finance.yahoo.com) Altro...

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justincrews83
I'm making almost double that starting salary as a ramp rat sligning gas. SMH the aviation industry is so beyond backwards sometimes. Straight out of the military into a ramp job with very little OJT cause I pretty much done the same thing in serive and zero college under my belt. Now if that isn't backwards I don't know what is???
jmilazzo
I can't wait till it all implodes!!! The bottom feeder regionals will fold, the majors will come to the realization that the cheapest isn't sustainable, the good regionals will charge more and costs will skyrocket. We will be paying $1500 for a round trip ticket between NY and Cleveland, $4000 for last minute. Corporate travel expenses will quadruple at best and corporate jets sales will be at an all time high!!!!!!!
preacher1
preacher1 1
It will be interesting to say the least. I'd almost be willing to bet that the FAA does away with the mandatory age 65 retirement before summer. Of course, most are ready to hang up their spurs by then anyway.
PhotoFinish
They may modify the 1500 rule first. The biggest problems will be in recruiting at the bottom of the food chain. Even if they increase pay modestly, there may not be enough pilots with 1500 hours who wouldn't take much higher paying opportunities elsewhere.

Either the 1500 rule will be modified, or there will be much less regional flying.

But if the retirement age is at issue, rather than keep increasing it, they could replace it with better, more predictive health metrics. Eventually they should figure out better health metrics and eliminate the mandatory retirement age completely.

Age is not the best predictor for good health. It's a very crude tool that everyone the same. Doing so is not as fair as it may appear. Those with great health borne of a healthy lifestyle are treated the same as those who are much more abusive of their health.

One group is much more likely to have a mid-air emergency health related incident than the other. If that's the reason for the retirement age, that energy could be directed toward better efforts. If not, there's no reason to have any mandatory retirement age.
preacher1
preacher1 1
You may be right but if this shortage goes as it seems to be headed they may wind up having to do both. It will be a crapshoot as to which comes first because most folks start planning retirement at least 6mos prior if not sooner. It may all come home to roost about the same time. Like you, if the medical is OK and one wants to keep on working, a mandatory retirement age is foolish. I didn't hit 60 until November and they changed the rule back in the summer, but I already had retirement and our transition planned so it was really too late.
PhotoFinish
The mainlines will always have pilots. And they'll be able to attract new pilots just by putting out a 'help wanted' sign.

The regionals will be decimated. With their lower rates of pay and the new 1500 rule, they'll often have difficulties finding all the pilots they need.

That's why I'm suggesting 1500 hr rule may go first (or more likely be modified) to allow regionals to recruit all the pilots they need.
b777x
b777x 2
Airlines in the Gulf excellent pay salaries for pilots Experts
Such as Emirates and Etihad and Qatar and Saudi Arabian Airlines
Average
17000$
Per Month
preacher1
preacher1 2
That makes me want to come out of retirement. LOL
preacher1
preacher1 2
Well, there needs to at least be some Federal Student Loan assistance here, rather than a prospect having to shoulder all that commercial debt. The additional rest is good. The 1500 hour rule is a joke. Most guys, in times past, would be Captain qualified by the time they got 1500 hours. Now they can't even see the inside of the cockpit til then. Cheap starting money is going to have to be addressed and pretty fast or things will get worse. Just another case of a knee jerk reaction from a lily livered congress to a bunch of folks with a specific agenda, with none of them knowing what they were talking about, at least on this 1500 hr. rule.
canuck44
canuck44 3
The new rules will merely export labor...there is tremendous demand in Asia for pilots who are paid very acceptable wages and don't require the same entrance requirements. The US airlines are going to find themselves competing for labor vs that market; wages will go up although small airlines will close down. Look for the legacy airlines to pick off the military pilots by making it worthwhile for them to bail.
preacher1
preacher1 5
Well, Eagle pilots just turned down that new contract, and you really can't blame them; bigger planes for the same money; they only carrot there was the flow thru on to AA but I think some money adjustments are going to have to be made in there somewhere. AA says they'll just place the planes with other carriers but if they can't get pilots, they may not take them; what then? I doubt anybody has thought that far. With other regionals parking planes and reducing service for lack of pilots, why would they take more?
PhotoFinish
They'll take the planes. Somebody will find them.

AA was trying to sell Eagle. They cost more, but many are disgruntled because they gave up concessions in bankruptcy. AA will not reverse the structural gains gotten in bankruptcy.

They may just shut down Envoy/Eagle, after they move the pilots they want to keep to mainline. Then sub out all the Eagle work.
PhotoFinish
* Somebody will fly them.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Unfortunately, you are probably right and so is John. Some will ExPat if the flying bug is strong enough and then come back as seasoned pilots for a legacy. You are gonna have to get you a new keyboard, auto correct or something. LOL
PhotoFinish
I try to catch most of them. I miss some of them and don't see them until AFTER I post the comment (when I can see the whole comment).

Wish we could edit comments.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Get you some bigger glasses. LOL
preacher1
preacher1 3
This all true but the legacies are so reliant on the regionals now to feed their hubs; what will happen when that starts drying up. Those small markets equate into full planes out of the hubs.
PhotoFinish
It'll be some combination of bigger planes and fewer frequencies. Some thicker routes will see increased use of mainline proportion of seats on route. But regionals will have to keep upgauging their planes. To both do more with fewer pilots and also to be able to profitably operate the flights.

Also the pilots will have to get paid more. That's what you do when you have a need and can't get enough pilots. When the regionals bud for work, they won't bud quite as low any more.

Someone mentioned that the smallest destinations will ve served with part 135 (9 passengers or less). They'll also be able to get lots of pilots cheaply to build up their hours (up to 1500). But after they have 1500 hours, they won't take McDonald's wages.
PhotoFinish
* The regionals will have increased costs so they won't be BIDDING quite as low as they have been. Note how many have been grounding their smallest jets. Innpart because they don't have enough pilots. So they pull their costliest planes to operate - their smallest jets - and keep operating the turboprops and bigger jets.
GateHold
Good for Nicas and Carey to put this story together. There's a segment in chapter four of my book that basically makes the same points. People hear about the supposed "pilot shortage," but they have no idea why it's happening.

pilot62
we can wee just split the difference, and give these guys a break, 750 would still be high, but at least that's reachable for some.
pilot62
Shrinkage happens
preacher1
preacher1 1
Word on the street is that Republic will take them all, that this was pretty much a well thought out deal and fore ordained. It also coincides with Republic signing the teamsters contract Friday after 6 years, which will give increases and put them above everybody money wise.
PhotoFinish
You just can't say that Envoy pilots didn't get first shot at those jobs. Their union rejected the work on their behalf (without even giving the pilots a vote). The pilots committee had negotiated in good faith over the past couple months, then the union didn't even allow them to vote.

I wouldn't put AA taking Plan B (Republic) on management. That was all the Union MEC's doing.

It always blows my mind when workers are getting the highest pay and benefits in their category, and still make a fuss (often through union intermediators) about the best nit being good enough.

When there are thousands (or millions or billions in some cases) willing to take the work for the same or less, sometimes settling for the best might not be settling at all. It might just be prudent.
skyfly12
I still want to be a pilot.

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