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Losing Privacy in Route Plans

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Disputing the curtail by the FAA of the Block Aircraft Registration Request, or BARR, program. (www.nytimes.com) Altro...

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indy2001
indy2001 0
For once I agree with Obama administration. (That hasn't happened very often.) If you're going to use the publically-financed ATC system and take your noisy, carbon-spewing machine through our airspace, then you shouldn't be afraid to hide your identity. And I say that as a pilot. I got so sick of the AOPA's demands for special treatment for GA pilots and aircraft -- at no cost of course -- that I canceled my membership. The "entitlement" mentality is out of control in our society these days.
preacher1
preacher1 0
@indy2001, this argument will go on forever with no winners. I don't agree with the administration on this and very little else for that matter. As the article notes, the government gathers a plethora of information about all of us, notably IRS and state DMV's, and that information is not made available to the public. Every company has their reasons for wanting blocking, as noted by Boyd Bros. trucking in the article. While not having a corporate plane, I am in the trucking business, and the reasons given there are very much on the nose. In the end, it may or may not make a difference, but it is simply the fact that it would be available. It ain't nobody else's business!! You said it pains you to agree with the OBAMA administration. I can't remember ever being on the same side as the ACLU until now.
allench1
allench1 0
Wayne you took all I could say and said it better so I guess all I can do now is to agree with you. By the way when do you fly the private 767 again.
preacher1
preacher1 0
Don't know just yet. Things were fairly slow during the summer. I was on call for a couple of weeks to cover some vacations but it seems everybody else was off too I guess. Kinda glad I didn't go anyway the way the weather has been out here. Drought everywhere then the Jet moved South and we had 3 straight days of late evening squall lines. No tornadoes but
60 to 80 mph strait line winds and you never seen squall lines come together and move that fast. I am 75 miles East of FSM, and normally a system will take about 3 hrs to cover that distance. These took less than an hour. Only one came thru before midnite and we had a total 2hr power loss. The other bad one came thru about 330am, and we were out of power all day, until about 7pm. I'll let you know when I go up again.
conmanflyer
Ill agree with wayne- im actually on the same side as the ACLU now :o scary
grinch59
Gene Nowak 0
Say Wayne, why don't you move to Florida where our new Republican Governor Scott just authorized the sale of all driver's license numbers and other personal data to whomever has the money to pay for it. It sounds like he is being corporate friendly again to all his donors. By the way, this is the same person whose healthcare company was fined BILLIONS of dollars by the Federal government for ripping off Medicare.

As for the Boyd Bros and others who want to remain incognito, that is very easy. All they have to do is sell their corporate jet and rent a different charter company plane each time they want to spy on their truckers and carry out no notice inspections. No one would be the wiser since the N-number would be different each trip, unless they have a spy in their own headquarters who records and reports to everyone the tail number of the aircraft they boarded.
allench1
allench1 0
I'll tell ya Wayne I do not miss flying the 747 or any other commercial airliner, however I do enjoy my little 2002 400A that I acquired just can't get over the sound of those JT15D-5 engines spooling up and the range is good for 1200NM at "0" wind, fly's great and I don't use it enough to worry about the fuel burn. It should be a single pilot airplane as I am now updating the panel with the pro line 21 system at about 467K.
preacher1
preacher1 0
@Gene: I like Arkansas. Regarding your new Governor, a crook is a crook regardless of what party he belongs to. As far as Boyd Bros., whether them or anyone else; I can't call up DMV and get your personal info off your tag number and should not be able too. ATC will have my flight plan and direct me safely back and forth, but it's nobody else's damn business what I'm doing.
preacher1
preacher1 0
@allch1- Glad to hear you are doing that well and that you are prosperous enough for the 400A.lol
allench1
allench1 0
I sent you an email Wayne, forgot I was on a public site. It explains why I spent the $$.
grinch59
Gene Nowak 0
@Wayne. I agree with you that party affiliation should be eliminated from the comments on Flightaware. But we always find "this administration" or "that administration" in every discussion. We must blame ourselves for all the Federal and State idiots we elected and correct it in the next election. Maybe we wouldn't have had the "debt ceiling" and "FAA construction" fiascoes.

Regardless, let me get off the soap box and suggest we prohibit all companies and governments from publicly releasing any and all flight schedules, just like personal and medical data. If someone needs to reach you to know your ETA, have them call you on the satellite phone.
preacher1
preacher1 0
@allench1- send that Email to the office address I sent you the other night that way I can read it here rather than waiting til I get home this afternoon. Unfortunately, it's mid week and I got to put in a little presence here to let them know I'm still around.lol
LauraB
I work for an airport and it is my job to bill GA and cargo aircraft when the FBO's that service our airport don't collect. I rely on information we get from a service we pay for, but often the details are sketchy and I need to look up aircraft here on Flightaware and on the FAA site. It certainly makes it easier to do my job with access to this information. Since we are not FAA they don't readily share all the detail they get in the tower with us.
preacher1
preacher1 0
@Laura Burns: I can see how your job would be easier or harder, whichever the case may be, HOWEVER, may I politely suggest that since you work for the Airport itself and SHOULD have some degree of control over your FBO's, then your issue is with the FBO's and not the FAA.With all due respect, you have no more business knowing what I am doing than anyone else. As I said earlier, I file my flight plan with the FAA and they get me to where I'm going, as filed.It is a moot point right now anyway as I think all is already open and blocking can only be allowed now for a proven terrorristic threat so I guess we'll see if all this hype is real or imagined. My other question, God forbid, is that if these FREE services were to shut down for whatever reason, Are you then going to demand that the government provide the service because you have come to rely on it and can't remember how you originally did your job with out it?
LauraB
I suppose the powers that be here at the airport would have to decide whether or not it is worth any additional cost to try to research the activity. The burden of cost then would shift more to commercial flights.
preacher1
preacher1 0
@Laura Burns: Be that as it may, but as I said earlier, your issue is with your FBO's. I am assuming by your earlier post that said you collect when the FBO's don't. That would tell me that the the FBO's are supposed to and if that is your sole function then somebody has not policed the FBO's to live up to their contract
LauraB
No billing the itinerant flights is not my only job here. The FBO's collect for all flights that they service, if gas is purchased or whatever. I am not pilot, but I would think there might be many reasons a pilot would not need to use an FBO. We have owners here that come in and out, guests of our tenants etc. If we had to rely solely on the income from these flights I don't we would be in business long.
preacher1
preacher1 0
I hear what you are saying and understand and while you may pick up a few more with the unblocking, most of the type Aircraft you mention would probably be VFR anyway and not have a flight plan filed, hence not seen by anyone except the tower when they gave a clearance
LauraB
I am not sure if all the flights we get are IFR or if we do pick up VFR. I know that the service we purchase uses a radar to detect flights. We get some strange data and it duplicates flights and says some landed at our airport when all they did was fly close by. We don't bill anyone under 6,500 MGLW so I assume that would cover most who would fly VFR anyway.
preacher1
preacher1 0
The weight you mention would probably be right as far as catching most VFR. Not sure about your service, but it don't sound like its picking off FAA, could be but sounds more like transponder work of some kind. Oh well.
kldfligtrrt
I think this will keep the pilots/companys honest on flight duty times. Now are Public, some times blocked means something to hide.
danpegla
The issue should be about only Real Time Tracking. You should be able to block real time tracking if you have a privacy/security concern, however the info could be available at a later date for those who just need to know other people's business. The program should have a way to allow those the operator wants to have access real time. This is a compromise position for me, because I really believe it is no one's business where I fly, drive , or walk, all using public airways, highways and sidewalks.
preacher1
preacher1 0
@kldfligtrrt: Blocked tail numbers may mean something to hide such as from competition or security, but it really doesn't have anything to do with flight hours as that is 'tween pilots and/company/FAA. That can be tracked by FAA anytime they want to. My stance is that of Dan's in the last line of his comment.Where I go and what I do is none of your business!!
s2v8377
s2v8377 0
I agree with the FAA on this one. Safety sensitive traffic already has the ability to squawk "discrete", and their flight info is not available to sites like FlightAware.

I personally don't feel that corporate America or private pilots require the privacy.
preacher1
preacher1 0
I guess it's all personal opinion, but it seems that a lot of the one's posting comments on here feeling they ought to have the right to track don't have any certificates showing on their FA profile, which would indicate to me they are just pissed off cause they can't meddle in somebody else's business and are jealous cause they ain't made the effort to qualify.just sayin'
kldfligtrrt
@Waynebookout I understand your position and agree. Please understand mine
I was refering to part 91 abuse not following regulation calling flight part 91 when in truth part 135. I am looking at it if publically watched is just more eyes. FAA can not watch all. Believe me I know this happens.
preacher1
preacher1 0
Sure it happens. Pilots are not any different than truck drivers. They are both under DOT, and both carrying log(lie)books. As a corporate pilot for my career, nobody was really watching over my shoulder, but they gave me latitude needed. Many's the time a meeting has gotten cut short or scheduled around our available flight hours, but there has been many the time that one ran long and it was land & spend a night in the Hotel in KTUL(PAX could grab a charter bus if they had to) or find that extra 30 minutes to get into KFSM so you could sleep in your own bed. By the same token, I know FEDEX guys flying out of KMEM bumped off of lovely runs cause they would go 2 minutes over on their time if they completed it. Plus we all know weather and traffic plays a big part when things are tight. I do realize that just as in trucking, there are companies out there that abuse their pilots and their are a lot of little podunk terminals out their that an 8 hr break for a pilot is being able to take his shoes off and stretch out in the airport manager's office, then hop up fresh? and pull 10 to get home. Hopefully those are going away.
kldfligtrrt
30 min not a problem 4+ hours problem . You are right rest not always good small FBO's. Cute also log(lie)book. Thanks Wayne Bookout gave me good laugh today.
preacher1
preacher1 0
Well, it may be and may not. As I am in trucking now, we are starting to get bombarded about electronic logs(EOBR's) and all that. Railroads have had them in some form for many years and they are creeping into the Airlines in several forms, at the very least you have the black boxes on commercial stuff, and a cumulative electronic log for all pilots and eventually something will find it's way into the private or corporate pilots world. All of this is good in one respect but having been on both sides of it the part about set hours is what bothers me. People are different. It is 1650 miles, by the road, from here in Western Arkansas to the LA area. I have had veteran drivers come off a full week's rest and not get past the rest area 7 miles to the west without having to take a nap. That same driver might come out the next trip and if unfettered, be in LA by noon the next day. You can get in your car and nobody says a thing to you if you want to stay up 24hrs and drive straight thru to somewhere but a professional driver or pilot can't do that. Besides that 30 minutes I spoke of, many has been the time I have went into KLAX around 7-8am after leaving KFSM around 2-3am. Stretch out on a couch in the back and grab a 3-4 hr nap, wake up rarin'to go, and get back into KFSM around 5-6pm. Ain't a thing in the world legal about that. According to my book, I would have spent the nite there in LA or something like that, but because I felt like it and was allowed to, I got to sleep in my own bed and told them the earliest call I could take. As I said, people are different and it can make it harder on them at times, giving a set amount of on duty time, whether driving or in the rack, trying to make it all black and white. That said, begrudgingly, I have to go along with them(DOT /FAA) on their thoughts because there are people out there that will treat men just like machines. I was fortunate enought not to have had to deal with that.That being said though, it still ain't anybody's business where I'm going though.lol
allench1
allench1 0
Wayne I do not have your business email so I am coping my text here.
Wayne I forgot we were communicating on a public site. I paid 1,785,00 for the 400A with under 1900 hours and full engine and maintenance program, all I have to do is keep making the hourly payments. I have hired a good friend and pilot ( out of learjet 60, & 45 ) to fly with me and to fly our charters with a part time cp. This came about by us only having a Bravo out of Destin for hire. we already have 160 hrs. annually booked. I can't wait to get completely healthy so I can get back in the saddle when I want and have a plane free to me to use. When I recover I will fly up to see ya....
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 0
Ain't anybody's business is certainly the correct answer BUT!!! privacy in the good ole USA has been out the window for some time. BARR program or not if someone really wants to track you they can it get done. I doubt security is a real issue with many people. When i get my plane the main reason i would block it has to do with taxes.I don't want to make it easy for them. I want to be like Warren Buffett and GE and pay none. Then the government will eventually institute a fair tax code that doesn't exempt any select group for some stupid reason. I pay 41% fed and state tax and that is crazy.
kb9uwu
you have a terrible accountant if you pay 41% fed.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 0
35% FED AND 6% STATE.

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