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ATC Argument though Bravo Airspace at KLAS

NASTY ARGUMENT between Cessna Pilot and Vegas ATC! | Busted Bravo Airspace ( More...

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Dray Hines 16
Just like everything else, just because somebody got a passing grade, doesn't mean that they are good a what they do. If the recordings are accurate, NR did not ask for clearance. On top of that, he became rude. Could have said I'm sorry, I made a mistake. But we all know that "everybody else is wrong. NOT ME" Right!!! Self centered punk is what we have here.
James Carroll 5
I probably wouldn’t lastlong as an ATC, but I would have asked this guy if he also walks across the 405 during rush hour. Someone should teach him that there are other people using his sky.
We've heard JFK Arnie and Kennedy Ralph say and do worse and still control. you'd still be on the scopes. ;)
Smitjere 13
I fly a little 182 through there weekly. Vegas and Nellis approach are probably one of the easiest Bravo to work with. I look forward to talking to that controller again next week. I'm guessing wife no longer approves and there will be a 210 for sale in the Torrance CA area.
Tim Duggan 2
A Cessna 210 for sale in Torrance??? What year, what price?? Count me IN!!!
ratko vasic 1
It's 1980 pressurized 210 :-)
But I wouldn't hurry in buying. If he maintained that aircraft as he is flying it... probably bad deal.
Mistakes happen. Recognizing the mistakes, learning from them, and apologizing makes for more experienced PICs, and thus safer airspace.

Blatantly ignoring ATC is criminally gross negligence.

When other pilots are straight up calling you an asshole on frequency, and nobody but you is concerned by it, YOU fucked up.
John Manley 11
The very fact alone this guy entered Bravo airspace without a clearance is grounds for a pilot deviation.... the fact he REFUSED to leave Bravo airspace and had an attitude about it on frequency,likely will be grounds for license suspension or revocation from FSDO........ dudes a total winner........
Roger Anderson 16
Owned by "Wife Approved LLC" lol
Mike Lynn 8
What an absolute jackass. He needs his pilot's license revoked and needs to write a letter of apology to the controller. And yes, keep a close eye out for his Cessna being up for sale. Can you imagine the conversation if it had been Kennedy Steve in the Control Tower?
Steve would have still kept it a bit humorous for us listening to this while still giving somewhat of a beatdown to the pilot...

Now, if it were Kennedy Ralph or JFK Arnie, they would have ripped him a new a-hole so big that both those SWA arrivals could shoot the fill ILS 26L approach through it, with the Missed Approach Procedure, including the holds at BLD...

Royce Jones 7
I don’t think I’ve ever heard a more entitled jerk pilot on the radio!
airbusflyboy 6
There's always a two per center out there to mess things up for all of us .......
One can only imagine what the other aspects and relationships of this guy’s life look like. How much do do you want to bet that when his license is suspended he will continue to fly? On the other hand if anyone is in the market for a nice looking Cessna P210, I got a feeling one will be coming on the market real soon
Chris B 1
Never thought about it but if he files a flight plan, with a suspended license would ATC know and therefore to refuse to release him.
clarify 6
I'm unhappy that Henderson Tower apologized to the pilot for "the service". It's clear the pilot already feels entitled and that apology doesn't help.
Robert Green 10
Doubt Henderson got the full story.
Had he flown KAPA BLD KHND, he would have added one mile to his trip and stayed out of Bravo with no change in his descent profile. However, as Smitjere already mentioned, a Bravo clearance is easy to obtain in that airspace when requested. Having done neither, the pilot could have easily exited Bravo when asked. I wonder whether there was a pressurization failure which rendered him hypoxic and lacking in judgement. How’s that for grasping at “benefit of the doubt” straws?
patrick baker 2
airman's certificate ought to be suspended straight away. There may be a dollar amount fine attatched to this too. At the least, any taxi clearance or takeoff clearance should be denied.
8literbeater 2
If you look up Jeffrey Wachner, you'll find evidence about his personality that confirms this event. He's an instrument commercial multi rated buffoon.
Miles Dee 2
Thanks.....I did and what a complete and total douche'. Only item I take with your comment is; you're being a bit harsh on buffoons wouldn't you say? ;-)
Tom Bruce 2
had many fun experiences when a tower controller at So Lake Tahoe... but when we reported "incidents" to
our FAA brothers they routinely poo-pooed them and never followed up.. nothing will happen to this guy
dmanuel 2
Is there a record of what subsequent actions occurred?
Henderson twr APOLOGIZED
Robert Cowling -1
I worked retail, and there are two types of apologizing. I'm thinking they used the first, not the second.
dee9bee 2
I haven't flown in over ten years but on this entertaining audio, I failed to hear two sentences that I thought were standard verbiage from ATC. "Remain clear of class B airspace, squawk 1234", followed by "Cleared into class B, cleared Henderson via...".Yea,the Pilot was a jerk.
In all honesty, the first line is not needed. Pilots are to remain clear of Class B airspace until ATC explicitly clears them into Class B. That is where the pilot was wrong, and then not only still busted Class B, but flew through the 26L/26R localizers while an aircraft was on final. He's lucky he didn't get even more of a verbal beatdown than he did on frequency.

That said, since he wasn't assigned a discrete code by L30, it could be assumed that he was VFR, had flight following from ZLA, and handed off to L30 from ZLA, so a new code wasn't needed. But even with that, explicit Class B clearance is required for him to transition through the airspace.

In short, the pilot is screwed.
totally agree
John Manley 0
you clearly dont know how Bravo airspace works..... according to 14 CFR $91.131 you are absolutely wrong.

please read and understand you MAY NOT enter Bravo airspace on a VFR flight unless given EXPLICIT clearance from the appropriate ATC facility.
And you apparently didn't read my post. no where in there did I say that you could enter Class B on a VFR flight. I'm explaining the conditions onto how he was handed over to L30, and what the status of his flight was. That has nothing to do with still needing the explicit clearance into Class B.

And I'm more than familiar with 91.131, let alone the 7110.65Y. Instead of saying how wrong I am, how about re-reading my post to see how you actually just repeated with everything I said.
John Manley 2
sorry i meant dee9bee not you... should have clarified. lol
Ahh. no problem. :)
John Manley 1
I can tell you have ATC background... .65 lol nice.
Tim Duggan 1
When it comes down? (Pun intended) is always "Here's a phone number to call". LOL!!! I have NOT been there, NOR done that! But I know/have heard of others.
Markus Wolff 1
It is obvious, he hates the FAA, with all their rules & stuff. “Says right here on screen GPS direct” way to go Captain. No need to argue with the FAA lawyer. Pledge intoxication, tell em you were smoking weed.
Roy Hunte 1
And get his license taken away.
patrick baker 1
it ain't a democracy up there in the skies: pilots submit to controllers with or without radar to keep seperation and sanity while flying. No entitled butt-heads get their way in that scenario. Play by the rules or get on your bike and pedal. period. Does this guy not believe in 4 way stop sign rules or red lights or traffic lanes, or even stay on the right side of the road? If he goes to england, does he demand everyone else drive as if they were in america?
ratko vasic 1
Just unbelievable, guy mixed up rules for entering Bravo and Delta airspace.
What an A**hole.
Sidney Smith 1
He will probably claim that he was not at the controls. Ever notice that names are kept off of flight plans? Fortunate that the area was not busier. Maybe he could update his knowledge
with an instructor. This guys sounds like he is dealing with the old TRSA where all you do is make voice contact. Or next time just whiz through and leave the radio off.
Even if that were the case, TRSA is similar to Class C, where two-way communications would be all that was required. They have that still in effect at KPSP, but that is irrelevant for Class B, as that explicit clearance into/out of it has been around since I started in in ATC, and that was 23 years ago.
Sidney Smith 1
He is definitely dealing with an C-5 attitude jammed into a light sport brain. I was not trying to excuse his complacency. After going through a Operation Pug in with Cleveland ZOB and approach a bunch of years ago, I have always had the highest regard for all controlers.
Sidney Smith 1
check that center..."Plug In"...stupid auto correct
Tim Hollars 1
Yeah, I wouldn't want to be him.
This guy must have received instruction from Harrison Ford on ATC / Pilot etiquette, even though Harrison was always apologetic.
billknn 1
Interesting that his history shows departing Calif and going to Minneapolis for several days during the unrest there. Very curious..
No doubt he hates cops as well.
A question comes up from time to time at my place of employment, regarding if the FAA is truly on board with the "just culture" concept, or if they really just want to keep on blaming and punishing pilots.

Our local Flight Standards District Office emphasizes that punitive certificate action is reserved ONLY for those pilots who "cannot or will not" accept responsibility & remedial education, and so far they've been true to their word. The FSDO & FAA are quite proud of the WINGS program and they really are pushing for education. In fact, I frequently see pilot deviation case investigations get closed when the pilots in question interview and show that they've already taken relevant remedial classes through WINGS.

This particular one-man-clown-show, however, is the perfect example of the type of pilot who will likely face certificate action because he's not accountable and can't be taught.
30west 1
This was not merely a "deviation" which is typically a screw up, but an outright refusal to comply with ATC instruction multiple times. Suspension of his pilot's certificate for at least three years, IHO, is appropriate.
Tom Bruce 1
as an old controller my experience was that FAA inspectors rarely did anything except laugh it off...
kelly couch -6
i agree JM..he obviosly thought he had clearance based on his first callup and recieving runway conditions at Henderson.She waited until he was on top of LAS than shouted remain clear!He should have recieved a vector out of class B than sort it out.He was panicked ,not knowing what to do...thus his apparent attitude..this is a partial controller error..look to be 50 -50 to me.
Tom Bruce 5
wasn't panicked...was defiant

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

Henderson is not listening in while he was talking to approach. Henderson tower remained professional during their contact with the entitled jerk.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

She might have been busy with other priorities
Tom Bruce 1
yep...can be a lot going on that isn't transmitted over the air... coordination with other controllers.. info streaming in
Actually, if you look at the Flightaware track, he makes a turn to the west and crosses I-11 which the controller probably would not have anticipated. It actually makes no sense for him to have done that unless he was thinking the 17s were in use at Henderson, though the controller clearly tells him the 35s are in use.

What he should have done was go to Boulder City (BLD) VOR and track outbound on the 245 radial. That keeps you clear of the Class B and sets you up just about right for a midfield pattern entry for either set of runways.

This guy has no excuse, the controller was just right as the pilot had no need to transit the Class B to get where he was going to.


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