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NO CFI Required? Really!!

WFAA Posted on July 9, 2011 at 12:06 AM ADDISON - Flying takes training, but what if the instructor teaching you wasn't licensed to do so? ( More...

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A.J. Williams 1
I was out more than $2000, but I have won the lawsuit and have about half of it back so far. Now it's the FAA's turn to get something done about this.
Wonder who's cfi number he put down next to each lessons endorsement
nheald 0
It sounds like several people need to be convicted & sent to jail.
What a terrible thing to fake, think of how many peoples lives could have been in danger.
mark tufts 0
joshua and nheald i aggre with both of you and the company should be shut down and everybody br refunded in full
terry herbert 0
LOL!the IP is probably more qualified now, with all the practical experinece, than most young IP's with new license!
Jake Jacobsen 0
I think the thing that really concerns me is, how many other unsuspecting student pilots did this guy provide training to and falsify entries in their logbooks. A close look at the video reveals that he was entering a CFI Number and Expiration Date on the entries he made. I hope the FAA is really investigating this place. You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to see that this guys license should be revoked. The number of regulations that he violated are too long to list.
calbert 0
I hope there are not many people the resived falesified log book entires from this guy. Since you can get training from any pilot, but it has to be a cfi for signoffs and to log it. What a desater from some people. I hope thay revoke his licence. Sounds also like a civil lawsuit would be a good ideal too.
Ryan Zerbe 0
I think we need a few more details, but it does sound like he's not operating in accordance with FAA regs. If you read the article, the student is out only $100 for "flight instruction", which is probably 3-4 hours tops. The student is doing this because of the principle of the matter...and I agree....I think the feds need to look into it. The problem faced is this: you can receive flight instruction from another pilot...they don't have to be a flight instructor. This kid cited the fact that the "instructor" signed him off for cross-countries and perhaps other training. Signing off without a CFI is illegal. So we'll have to see what the FAA says about that...if thats true or not.

What I suspect what happened was that the students regular instructor was short on time, knowing that this other pilot was experienced? he wanted to get a second opinion on his student for a cross-country flight. That doesn't make this right, but its not illegal for someone to fly with another person. Only time and more details will tell, but it does sound like the guy is still in trouble. If you operate air-tours you have to be a commercial pilot...period. If you're an international or even a US citizen with licenses in a foreign have to get them transferred to FAA standard certs...period. Like I said he may have been offering instruction to fill in...or he could be doing even worse and "holding out" for instruction. In either case it looks like the FAA needs to look into this in detail.
Ryan Zerbe 0
Let me add to what I said before...its bad business practice to charge for something like that...if the guy was compensated for riding with a student...thats pretty bad too. FAA will bust him on that all day long. But also bad business practice to "sell" time to someone or not to the customer that the "flight instructor" isn't certified.
Wingscrubber 0
Underlying problem here is cost - falsifying instructor/commercial ratings or taking credit for hours not flown is due to expenses.
If instruction could be done more cheaply, this problem would go away, there would be no motivation to lie - but then would the industry become saturated with qualfiied jobless pilots? Or is there still a shortage...?
Jeff Lawson 0
Ryan, the article says only "$100", but its accompany video says "hundreds of dollars" so that may just be a typo in that text. The video closeup of his logbook shows several flights and endorsements by the accused CFI, so they had several training sessions together.
A.J. Williams 0
I'm out $1000s, not $100s, for about 10 hours of instruction time. WFAA didn't transcribe the video quite right. By the way, the "instructor" is still giving aerial tours, as of last night.
vikas shukla 1
hello A J Williams

can you please send me the link of this particular news.

i want the video of this case.

Thank You
vikas shukla 1
hi Aj Williams

i am from India. can you please share the video for this particular complaint.
Jake Jacobsen 0
Ryan, it is illegal, in most cases, for a Student Pilot to carry passengers. Qualified Instructors and FAA DPEs are the exceptions. If the "instructor" is nothing more than a Commercial Pilot(which this guy is), then he has no business in the aircraft with a Student Pilot. Again, I hope the FAA is really investigating this whole situation. Truly sad that Mr. Williams had to dish out 1000s of extra cash to get his Private.
Victor Engel 0
A.J., good to hear from the horse's mouth. Thanks for posting.
YOu guy are probably too young to remember Eastern Airlines had a DC9 Captain that only had a private license. When asked why he didn't gte hois commercial or ATP he said he didn't think he needed it, or some other dumb comment. Moral of the story, from this instructors perspective, ASk to see your instructors license. I am happy to show mine.
Patrick Arnzen 0
This guy is guilty of much more and much worse than just illegal flight instruction. I have first hand experience with this facility. Please inform your friends and family to avoid Supreme Aviation.
Patrick Arnzen 0
This is not the first news story about Supreme Aviation, Check out the link below.
Ryan Zerbe 0
yeah it must've been a typo
Ryan Zerbe 0
but you can ride with a student pilot; you MUST to be rated on that airplane because you are now PIC. It's just like taking your son or daughter flying...but there is a big difference between that and what this guy has done. He can't charge anything either; especially without a commercial.
Ryan Zerbe 0
my best to you AJ; hope they get him to pay some or all of that back
Carter Braxton 0
Capt Frangione, could you provide the details of the EAL captain with only a private license? I hadn't heard about that before. Sounds like an interesting story!
N1982K 0
Similar experience in Midland, TX 25 years ago when after 5 hours if instrument training I learned the instructor the flight school had assigned to me was only a CFI and not a CFII. I was eventually compensated for the "lost" time. Lesson: Always ask to see your instructor's credentials.
Brian Martin 0
Perhaps in light of this fellow's role at Supreme, the FAA could create a new certificate called UCFI... uncertified flight instructor.
smokey831 0
I would ask him to follow me out to the plane so I could ask himn a "Question" about the aircraft. With no one to see I would kick his ass and leave him laying in the dirt! Then my attorney would serve him with paperwork for our next meeting in court!

Sorry for your troubles A.J.
John Jones 0
The guy giving me primary instruction, 'Crash and Burn Bob', had a lapsed CFI and medical. Check with the FAA FSDO to make sure your instructor is current, with no enforcement actions - that goes for BFR rides, too! Avoid instructors with nicknames like 'Crash', too.

I found out when I bounced a landing and went off the runway, returning from my first solo XC flight. It was only an incident, but the FAA asked for the instructor's license number. The FAA had been after this guy for years.

The silver lining was the pilot that referred me to C&B redid his BFR with a current CFI, just before an engine-out into a mall parking lot. Insurance would have been null and void with the bogus BFR; something insurance companies and the FAA are all over after an accident, pulling on the paper trail.
John Jones 0
A.J., the FAA won't do anything except send you a registered letter saying your flying privileges are revoked, in my case my solo cert. The local Sheriff's office were after Crash and Burn, with the intent to arrest him if they saw him operating an aircraft, but that never happened.

White guys will cheat you, too. Aviation is full of flakes. Good luck collecting your judgement.

I did get my license, with another CFI. My bogus hours are now listed as towards flying time, but didn't count to my check ride.
John Jones 0
Somebody showing a certificate is a good start, but a license is effective for life. The two other components to being legal are a Medical and being current with check rides and recent experience.

The FAA maintains a list of current CFIs and CFIIs. I believe the FAA refers to this as the 'FISH' report.

The worst the FAA can do is fine and suspend, or request the offender surrender his license. The behavior is likely to continue, either way.

The airport operator (like the county, depends on your airport) could be convinced that the operation could result in a big liability. Depends, if you want to keep flying at that airport, on how far you want to take it.
Jake Jacobsen 0
I believe the FAA could REVOKE this guys license, and if they let him have it back at some time in the future, he would then have to re-qualify for all his ratings.
John Jones 0
We can see the person who loses is the student. My guess is A.J. found out when he was filling out his application, and the Designated Flight Examiner caught the fraud. That's how the FAA deals with it.

An emergency revocation is a very rare thing. I doubt it would make a difference.
Jack Gray 0
I remember being told about this by Capt. Jim Crawford, EAL, many years ago.
Don Clark 0
As a Student Pilot, I logged many hours that were with just pilot friends, but they did not go down in the PIC Column. They counted for nothing but TT, but I learned some very valuable lessons from them. One of them was a United 737 Pilot. I learned how NOT to land from him. He couldn't land a plane worth a Hoot!
n42769 0
Capt Frangoine, I believe that EA Capt was a DC6 Captain who kept passing up opportunities to "upgrade" because he KNEW he did not have anything but a PPL and IF he upgraded then he would be expected to hand over his "old" certificate. IIRC, he was okay until EA phased-out the 6's.
Toby Sharp 0
American Flyers at Addison......Quality
Bill Straw 0
If you can fly as a captain on some Indian airlines without a license, why would you need to have a certificate to be an instructor. This goes on a LOT more than we think!
Dale Roark 0
Before the FAA came in and destroyed Avaiation. They had flight schools where only the chief fligh insturctor had to be rated. He gave Phase checks to the students. This way he evaluated both the student and the instructor. It worked really well but of course that did not make the government happy. Because the FAA mission statement is We are not Happy until you are not Happy!
Matt Swinney 0
The internet, AOPA magazine, Flight Training magazine (etc, etc etc) frequently publish articles like "Picking the right flight instructor" or "How to pick a flight school." Anyone with the spare change to pay for flight training should have a little research and in so doing come across an article advising him to ask for credentials. If the instructor HAD shown his credtials, would that student really have known what to look for or what he was looking at? Further, you can tell that News 8's reporter, w/ no aviation knowledge, doesn't know the right questions to ask (note: "a POLICY called part 61"...that's not a policy, that's the law). Addionally, very few of us here have read further than the parts of 61 they need to for their current level of licensure or training. There is obviously some reciprocity between the US and foreign country's licensing, just like between the states with your drivers license. Can you imagine not being able to drive out of state or fly between countries because you don't hold licenses in the adjoining/destination countries? Just think of all the Chinese, Indian, and middle eastern countries begging for U.S. pilots to come fly in those countries. Think of all the big flight schools (Delta Academy, Flight Safety, Embry Riddle)training foreign students who go right back to their countries and fly there w/ U.S. licenses. If you've read the Australian rules for training, licensure etc (its CASA, not FAA...Civil Aviation Safety Authority), you know the guy did the work. He's probably safe, most likely legal for most of his Part 91 operations. He probably had to have submitted paperwork for extended recip authority or license conversion after some period of time had passed (likely 90 days). Nowhere in the article does it say that paperwork had or had NOT been done, or was even required. Critical thinking skills here people! Most "news" articles are 25% facts and truth 75% mistakes, opinion, and sensationalistic fluff.
Amit Agarwal 0
First of all Mr. AJ Williams, you lost the case in the court. You would have surely won if your lawsuit for $9800 would have been favored by the Judge. It was a good try though. I offered you to settle for 9.6 hours of total time I flew with you, you objected, denied, waited for like 3 months to go for trial, just because you were encouraged by some people who them self are so unsuccessful in life. In the end, you had to settle in the court for the same amount which i offered on day 1, or in other words, I won the case since Judge realized I was not doing anything wrong.
Amit Agarwal 0
Thanks a lot Matt Swinney for your matured and sensible comment. I am the Instructor/Pilot here everyone has been passing comments about. And since I have not done anything wrong, I think I should share some info.
Yes I have more than 2000 hours dual given in different countries across the world including Asian countries and Australia. I went up with Mr. AJ Williams for 6 flights, where he was extremely happy and satisfied with my instruction. Matter of fact he wanted me to be his primary instructor for his entire Private Pilot's training (Thank God I assigned another instructor to him). These 6 flights were conducted after submission of my Foreign Instructor's Certificates to FAA for conversion. Note that I already have my FAA Commercial Pilot's Certificate which was an original issuance here in USA. Later on I heard from the FAA that they don't convert foreign Flight Instructor's Certificates.
Amit Agarwal 0
A Pilot/Instructor with 2000+ hours of total time. Do you really think I am so fond of fooling around with the FAA? Or do you really think I don't know how to fly a Cessna 172? And these flights were done in a period where I was conducting about 75 Downtown Tour Flights in month, pretty much on everyday basis. How can you call such operations dangerous or careless?
Amit Agarwal 0
I will tell you exactly what this is all about.
Mr. Patrick Arnzen (commented above) worked for me. Had to let him go since we did not think he was worth the salary (I guess other places he worked for in the past, and will work in the future will think the same. And hence change of companies on his resume every 2 years!)
Through this dumbass media reporter FRIEND of Mr. Williams and Patrick Arnzen (Who now work together next door trying to run this Light Sport training crap), they advertised their hangar, airplanes at the same time screwing me. Good stunt. Successful too.
Let's see how successful this Light Sport venture of yours is.

Just keep in mind one thing guys - GOD IS WATCHING. The results shall be out soon. Thanks!
Bill Straw 0
If you can fly a a captain on some Indian airlines without a license, why would you need to have a certificate to be an instructor. This goes on a LOT more than we think!


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