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'Bad math': Airlines' COVID safety analysis challenged by expert

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A campaign by coronavirus-stricken aviation giants to persuade the world it’s safe to fly has been questioned by one of the scientists whose research it draws upon. (www.reuters.com) Altro...

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ndvashishtha
NAINA VASHISHTHA 12
Let doctors and virologists do independent research about safety about cabin air samples randomly
punkrawk78
Silent Bob 7
How though? Are doctors gonna run up and down the aisle on random flights waving containers around to collect air samples? In order to get a valid result from a test you need repeatable conditions and a control to establish a baseline.

It’s funny how people will blindly follow “science” when it supports their perspective, but when it challenges it they all of a sudden need more testing or further proof, or if they really don’t want to accept it just attack it as “junk science”.
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 3
Exactly. If one cannot get a repeated result using the same method, or different methods, then is the original result accurate? At least the United/Boeing test tries to show such, but just that one test is not enough. Similar and enhanced (more dummies emitting aerosols or mists) tests are needed to see if the results are the same, or if something else happens.
bcfd29
Pete Schecter 13
The DOD study recently completed does a really good job of identifying and examining airborne particle spread thru cabin air ion both narrow and wide body aircraft.

Based on this very subjective and granular data, 45 hours of continuous flight time is required to obtain a particle load consistent with infectious transmission (via airborne particles).

This report is worth a read, and has a lot of good data in it, and the methodology is solid, using measures of particles for modeling the dispersion of chem-bio hazards.
ghstark
Greg S 7
I expect airline's Covid safety assertions to be self-serving, but that was not much of a 'challenge' by that particular expert. Citing known infections is not bad math, it's just a limitation that's shared by all testing for all diseases, ever. There has been some analysis of the total prevalence of Covid-19 in a population compared to the number of positive Covid tests. While it seems to vary somewhat, a factor of 10 to 1 is a decent ballpark figure. That would put the estimate of the number of infected airline passengers at 450-500 out of 1.2 billion, which means the IATA statement is still reasonable.
bbabis
bbabis 13
Long after covid is gone many other infectious respiratory ailments that have always been with us will still be with us. They're not in the news and serve no political purpose so they are no big deal to travelers. As has always been the case, the elderly and compromised among us must always be vigilant during travel and others vigilant of them.
georgeschultenkamp
George Schultenkamp 3
And nobody seems to talk about the associated close contact necessities of airline travel. Sitting in a departure lounge, lining up at check in, etc.
jrollf
jrollf 3
I find it interesting that they concentration on "airborne" but completely avoid the physical contact aspect. Someone sitting next to you that is sick, likely has the virus on their hands... and then transfer to everything they touch, arm-rests, tray tables, seat, bathroom, etc... Then other passengers will touch these items and potentially get infected. No amount of airflow will prevent that.
NF2G
David Stark -8
Except that the virus does not survive more than a few seconds on a surface.
jrollf
jrollf 3
Not true, it can last for a long time...

WebMD: "The coronavirus can live for hours to days on surfaces like countertops and doorknobs. How long it survives depends on the material the surface is made from."
https://www.webmd.com/lung/how-long-covid-19-lives-on-surfaces

CBS News siting a study: " The scientists found that at 68 degrees Fahrenheit, SARS-CoV-2 was "extremely robust" on smooth surfaces — like cell phone and other touch screens — surviving for 28 days on glass, steel and plastic banknotes.

At 86 degrees Fahrenheit, the survival rate dropped to seven days and plunged to just 24 hours at 104 degrees Fahrenheit."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-can-survive-28-days-on-glass-plastic-steel-surfaces-11-hours-on-skin/

So yes, COVID-19 infection from surfaces that have been touched is a major concern. The airlines themselves say the "disinfect the planes EVERY NIGHT", so plenty of time for an infection to spread.
NF2G
David Stark 1
Not credible sources. WebMD = YouProbablyHaveCancer.com CBS News, well...
jrollf
jrollf 3
CBS sighted studies by Australia's national science agency, Kyoto Prefectural University of Medicine in Japan, with data published or Oxford's Jourunal of Infections Diseases.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1517/5917611

So, you can either follow the research, or believe BS politicians and Facebook. Your choice.

Provide a credible source that the "virus does not survive more than a few seconds on a surface". At the moment, your claim is baseless, it is well known for decades that most flew like virus, which COVID-19 is, can survive on surfaces, and are generally easily transferred by touch. I've provided multiple references, you provided none.
sparkie624
sparkie624 0
I believe after the election that there will be a large Decline in the Virus!.... LOL... But of course.. as I said before... 4 More Years of Trump the Very Dims won't give up and have it for 4 more years... Biden Wins, be gone by the first of the year... Which is worse... The Virus or Biden.. LOL!
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
Just sick and tired about hearing about Corvid.... Much of it being Political.
Banyans
Sholto Brown 1
yep...agree.
KineticRider
Randy Marco 0
Ignorance is bliss, you are emblematic of what's wrong with this country.
Makiwa
Spin Wing 4
Ignorant? Or just refuses to be gullible?
I’m going with option two.
darjr26
darjr26 0
I’m sick and tired of people like you.
bbabis
bbabis 3
No need for that here. Keep it in the hanger.
darjr26
darjr26 1
I’m tired of self serving narcissists trying to minimize a serious virus that has killed almost 250k people, including four that I know. One friend has lost both of his parents. My sister is a nurse and most nights comes home exhausted. Go to a major hospital’s COVID floor and tell the doctors and nurses how “tired” you are of COVID. Tell them it’s all political. Go visit a family that had to say goodbye to a loved one via FaceTime because they are not allowed to be with them when they expire. You can keep it in the hangar, I can’t anymore.
SIERRA09
Ed Crist 2
I agree. It is amazing how many people live in a vacuum. They refuse to believe what they see or hear. These are the same people who believe the dear Leader is doing a fantastic job; and he is, right down into the gutter.
NF2G
David Stark 0
I refuse to believe what I see or hear from the news media. There is an agenda at work and it is not aided by truthful or accurate reporting.
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 0
That is due to how media works. Those who do not believe that the media has an agenda needs to reexamine how they look at things. This is a telling article.

https://sites.psu.edu/aspsy/2014/10/26/our-own-thoughts-vs-media-influence/
jeliop
John Eliopoulos 1
More garbage from “scientists”.
Makiwa
Spin Wing -6
Of those infected while flying on an airliner, how many passed away?
Since they’re not even reporting that, I’ll make the assumption that not many did, if any at all.
Which makes this entire thing a great big “SO WHAT?!!!”
Banyans
Sholto Brown 0
Yep...agree 100%
Makiwa
Spin Wing 2
Shoutout, seems there are not a lot who do agree.
Cancel culture is rife.
Too bad, I guess.
Makiwa
Spin Wing 2
I do hate autocorrect!!!
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
:) - I have had them to mess up my post more than once.. LOL
NF2G
David Stark -7
Practically everyone in (political) authority has been lying about COVID-19 from the beginning.
sparkie624
sparkie624 -1
What do you expect.... On an Election year and you expect to hear the "Truth"

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

devmegsmum
devmegsmum 3
So you think the ENTIRE world is conspiring to make up a phoney virus? To what end? Give your head a shake man. The virus is real and you are in a mass of denial.
NF2G
David Stark 0
The virus is real. The global response is driven by deliberate misinformation.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
Not denying it is not real... It has just become too political and people are getting too pushy about it. I also do not feel it is as bad as everyone is making it out to be.
sparkie624
sparkie624 -6
I have said quite a few times... If Biden Wins it will be over by the first of the year, if Trump Wins, the Dim's will keep pedaling for the next 4 years!
Makiwa
Spin Wing 1
True dat!!!

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

braxtron
braxtron 11
PCR tests are not unreliable or prone to false results (I am a PhD who is active in this field). The tests that do not work well are the 'rapid tests' that attempt to detect antibodies in blood. You're better off flipping a coin.
NF2G
David Stark 11
The problem is conflating screening tests with diagnostic tests and using them as if they were interchangeable.
Makiwa
Spin Wing 1
Exactly, David!
There has been an awful lot of “conflating” since this whole debacle started.

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