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Return of 737 Max Nears

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The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said Tuesday it will soon issue a formal notice to allow for public comment ahead of an Airworthiness Directive that would clear Boeing’s 737 MAX to fly passengers again. This step is a clear signal that federal approval for the 737 MAX to return to service again in the U.S. is approaching. However, a person familiar with the process and the steps ahead said that a formal ungrounding is now unlikely before mid-October. (www.seattletimes.com) Altro...

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bcanderson
This just means the process is going to get a lot of input from a lot of people that are the least qualified to make it.

Hey! Sorta like the FlightAware squawks forums!!
tbpera
Tom Pera 5
nice one, Brian!
stratofan
stratofan 6
Too bad Bill Lear is not alive to add his perspective on this whole situation. He would definitely have some colorful comments!
pecosllama
"Help! Get me out of this box!"
jbsimms
Not that I have anywhere to go for any reason, I wouldn’t object on taking a trip on one. Will probably be the most checked over aircraft model in recent history
phowry
Phil Howry 3
I actually thought this was an "industry-related" forum to read and share information in an informative, constructive and productive fashion.

Some comments are indeed experienced and operations-based (i.e. informative); however, others appear to believe slander and ridicule are informative....sad commentary on society.

Thank you,
RDLoven
Sometimes Big Goverment will go to extremes to correct what should have been a small fix.
Down the road the handling of the Max 737 and the Covid-19 will be considered two of the bigger fiascos of modern times.
E1craZ4life
If you think about it, the 737 MAX was a canary in the coal mine.
MJReardon54
Of course ALL commercial large jets being as complex as they necessarily are, will remain extremely hazardous accident risks when flown by low- time inadequately trained and insufficiently experienced, careless, inattentive, unthoughtful, complacent pilots. Fortunately that rarely is the case but certainly was a big factor in the 2 737 crashes.
666adt
Southwest alone flew the MAX more than 40,000 flights over more than 88,000 hours with nary an accident. This seems to speak to your point. I won't object to flying on a MAX with a US domestic airline.
ADXbear
ADXbear 4
Have the pilots unions signed off on the planes safety?...

Boeing MUST REBUILD PUBLIC CONFIDENCE, the FAA MUST explain itself and its poor inspection practices as well..

Alot of mending needs to be done..n
steerts
The FAA has been going downhill for a long time (see entropy). Even in the 1990's,I had to teach FAA Simulator re-certification people how to fly a stall series. Had I not done so would have meant no certificate. Bureaucrats, no matter what field of endeavor, are normally under-qualified for their position. The fact that the Max 80 flew for 2 years without a loss of aircraft is proof that it should never have been grounded. A simple notam would have been sufficient.
RetiredCaptain
"Bureaucrats, no matter what field of endeavor, are normally under-qualified for their position"

I must not have been normal then. >;-) In any case I'm sure my brethren in ATC would disagree. Ditto, the airways inspection pilots. Fellow ATP rated inspectors. Etc.

As an aside perhaps you could share with us your qualification.

Best

Capt J Buck

ATP DC-9 B757 B767
Flight Instructor
Ground Instructor
Aircraft Dispatcher
A&P Mechanic
Air Traffic Controller
FAA Aviation Safety Inspector (Ret.)
FAA certified accident investigator (Ret.)
ICAO Panel Member
Aviation Safety Consultant
steerts
Mr. Buck, Here a few highpoints in my career:

USAF fighter weapons tech, F86D, F94c
Convair Palmdale, F102 weapon System Tech
Burroughs Corp., Atlas Guidance Computer Tech
Philco Corp., Field engineer F86L 497th. ftr. sqdn.
Link-General Precision, Field Engineer F102 Simulator
" " " Supervisor, field support for SCTVGHDS Surveyor Program, Goldstone, ca
" " " Installation and debug engineer Apollo mission Simulator NASA Houston MSc
American Airlines, Flight Simulator Engineer,BAC-111, 727-100 727-200, 707-100, 707-300, 767, 747, MD-80, DC-10, and 737.
I failed to mention the Grumman Mallard that I took care of from age 14-18 to pay my way through high school. Cleaning, polishing, and light maintenance.
30west
30west 1
Ron, What FAA Airman Certificates do you possess?
steerts
NONE, is it required to be rated intelligent?
30west
30west 2
Ron,

Intelligence is not the point. I'm sure that you are very intelligent.

What prompted my question was you stated that "Even in the 1990's,I had to teach FAA Simulator re-certification people how to fly a stall series. In all my sim training I have never had a sim instructor who was not only a pilot and an instructor (CFI and FSI trained for non-airline, and CFI and/or company trained as an instructor for the airline), but also type rated in the aircraft that the sim was replicating.
RetiredCaptain
Same here. That's why I asked the questions about airman certificates held.

The FAA/ICAO's guidance defines a Flight Simulator Technician/Engineer as a person who is to maintain and repair flight training devices in accordance with appropriate Civil Aviation Authority requirements and company standards. Essential elements of the position include performing installation of flight simulation training devices (FSTDs) and flight control devices, operation, inspection, regular maintenance, design, modification, repair and testing. Technicians or engineers work with software that runs modern flight simulators, and the associated electronic devices and classroom equipment. The positions as a flight simulator engineer requires that the person be familiar with avionics and navigation concepts, flight simulation, aircraft sensors and inertial guidance. Specialist qualifications as a systems engineer may require experience of modeling and simulation. The individual is not authorized to give ground or flight training in a simulator for the purposes of acquiring the time necessary to qualify for an airman certificate or rating in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 (Personnel Licensing) or airman certification and qualifications requirements in the FAA's 14 CFR parts 61, 121, 135, 141 and 142.

To that end I'm not sure what Ron meant by the phrase "I had to teach FAA Simulator re-certification people how to fly a stall series. Had I not done so would have meant no certificate." But one can study much more about the FAA's Flight Simulation Training Device Qualification Guidance at this FAA website https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/nsp/ac/.

Best
deanbog1
Capt Buck . I have been a Air Traffic controller for the past 29 years in a very busy north east Center . Alas I can tell you without a shadow of a sought in the faa its "The less you know the higher you go "
RetiredCaptain
" I have been a Air Traffic controller for the past 29 years in a very busy north east Center"

My sincere condolences. Stuck with just a 7110.65 and Pilot/Controller Glossary for all those years. You might want to apply for the Chief Operating Officer of ATO when Teri leaves. I'll put in a good word for you. >;-)

Best
MJReardon54
Torpid sluggish FAA burocrats - no concern for them that one of our most important large companies has almost been driven to bankruotsy nor the potential safety hazards of thousands of planes sitting unused for increasing number if months ( think desiccating seals and lines for those sitting in desert airplrts, think corrosion fir thise elsewhere). Then again when big government gets stupidity on a roll, there is no stopping it and the (perhaps) unintended adverse risks gradually accumulate to our eventual detriment. We are now in a golden era of grand Hoaxs and deceptions.
jbsimms
Would take your comment more seriously if you spelled your words correctly
steerts
No need for cind of krap, Jams.
FrankHarvey
AD 2020-16-51 Corrosion on bleed air check valves on engines not run for a while.
volsocal
Mark Gibbs 1
I'll ride them!
RD68
Este avión no me gusta para nada , es como tener un Datsun y tratar de meterle tecnología actual , para después arreglar y emparapetar a la cosa que creaste , en vez de salir y competir con un diseño propio de ese avión, pero entiendo que es por ahorrarse sus millones y así tener más ganancia , a sabiendas que muchos de sus componentes han salido malos en la fabricación. Tremendo frankeinstein.
E1craZ4life
English translation:

"I do not like this plane at all; it's like having a Datsun and trying to put current technology on it, and then fix and dress up the thing you created, instead of going out and competing with a design of that plane, but I understand that it's for saving your millions and thus have more profit, knowing that many of its components have gone wrong in manufacturing. Tremendous Frankenstein."
666adt
Actually, it *should* have been written "Tremendo Frankenstein's monster". Frankenstein was just the doctor.
mhope100
I am unable to get the article due to a pay wall.
I will still not fly on one again. My only flight was the day of the last crash, watching the news on the tv at the crash scene while I waited to board.
jmadunleavy
John D 2
Seattle Times doesn't have a pay-wall as far as I can tell.
vanyel04103
vanyel04103 -2
It does if you have an ad blocker to prevent them from placing whatever virus, or piece of malware disguised as an ad vaginal wipes or penis enlargers.

Just sayin.
patpylot
boeing has been a bad behaver, even a criminal one . Those two crashes may not have occured if the planes were flown by better qualified pilots, but the planes were criminally defficient, and those facts do not go away. Contingent liability will get exposed and arugued in courts and in these columns for a long time. The FAA get exposed as a clown college, boeing gets exposed as some version of an ongoing criminal enterprise.
rklima
You don't know much about criminal law.
hcso9u30
With so few people flying now due to Covid, is there even a need for the Max's?
E1craZ4life
One of the big selling points was flying long-range low-demand routes; if anything, narrow body demand would be higher during COVID.
DGR54Rathborne
As a side comment , on the grounding of all 737's , as a result of air traffic collapse , and all other varieties of aircraft , i heard on ABC's News with David Muir ,on Friday Nite , that on 2 737's ( Not the Max ) that had been sitting for a long time , experienced engine failures . Due to this , the NTSB suspects corroded Fuel Injectors , and advises all engines should be inspected . I figure , that as grounded aircraft ,due to Covid -19 , start to re-enter service ,there is going to be a lot of these types of problems . Please check the oil please .
bbiernacki1954
Systems do fail and have put learns into a mach tuck.. 40 years in leaders IV seen them .fail
bbiernacki1954
IM an ATP. CHECK AIRMEN. AND HAVE BEEN USED AS AN EXPERT WITNESS MANY TIMES IN COURT .BUT ONE SERIOUS. PIECE THAT WAS GETTING PUSHED ASIDE HERE IS PILOT SKILLS.. I HAVE GIVEN MANY CHECK RIDES. TAKE LEARJETS FOR EXAMPLE. IF YOU DIDNT GET THE STALL SWITCHES OFF IN A OVERSPEED. SYSTEM FALILUE IN THE SIMULATOR ,BECAUSE IT DOES HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE. YOU DIDNT PASS YOUR TRAINING. . I HAVE SEEN MANY PILOTS PANUC AND LOOSE. IT IN THE SIMULATOR AS WELL AS IN A CHECKRIDE IN THE PLANE. WHAT HAPPEN HERE???.. WE IN AMERICA TRAIN ., AMERICA HAS THE BEST PILOTS IN THE WORLD ,, SOME DO SLIP THRU THE CRACKS .. BUT 300 HOUR PILOTS IN THOSE PLANES??? WILL NEVER CUT IT .. WE TRAIN WITH GOOD CAPTAINS FOR YEARS TO LEARN TO BE A GOOD COMMANDER.SO WE DONT PANIC IN A DEMANDING SITUATION LIKE THE MAX. OR A LEARJET THAT HAS KILLED MANY BUT WE HAD TO PERFORM. OR WE FAILED .. AND LOST JOBS .. THANKS
Highflyer1950
Hmmmm, all caps really necessary? I hope you don’t speak like you write but no judgment here! If you overspeed a Lear the puller will be very quick to bump the column back once or twice to get you a little below Mmo. Don’t recall having to turn off the “stall switches” unless you crunched an AOA vane from hitting a bird. Did that in a 20 series Lear but with the teledyne AOA system and all it did was gore the bird to pieces that then went through the little hole in the front of the CJ-610...fun times.

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