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Novità e InfoMom: Boy didn't steal plane in crash

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Mom: Boy didn't steal plane in crash

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17 year old student pilot appears to take two teenage friends on joyride in a Twin Commanche with fatal ending. (news.yahoo.com) Altro...

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BenKFIT
Ben Lillie 16
They say he showed great promise as a pilot. I'm sorry, but no "pilot" makes a decision like that.
keleher
keleher 5
Despite what the FAA calls them on their certificates, some people are not pilots in my book. I hate to place blame based on one news report, but it sounds like this kid might be one of them. Sad that he and his friends found out the hard way why some FARs exist.
BenKFIT
Ben Lillie 7
Yeah. Unfortunately, they didn't find out. They won't have a second chance.
preacher1
preacher1 4
It being dark and with bad wx to boot, it sounds like bulletproof youth took over.
BenKFIT
Ben Lillie 5
Yep. That's the problem with us kids. We think everything will turn out okay, and disastrous consequences occur from bad decisions.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Unfortunately, this went real bad
BenKFIT
Ben Lillie 3
Yeah. Hopefully it will be a lesson to others.
chris13
Chris Bryant 8
Bad decisions will get you killed most of the time. An aircraft he was not qualified to fly, passengers he was not allowed to have, and flying at night. Not a good mix. Sad ending, but not unforseen.
wallypiper
Wally Piper 3
"Most 17 year old people are able to make adult decisions."
ROFLMAO
Do you actually know any 17 year old people?
aksail
Everett Clary 3
You hear stories like this (not necessarily involving aircraft) that very often involve ethanol. Youth, friends, day of the year, time of day + EtOH = poor decisions with tragic consequences
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 4
Owner of the plane better be thinking of a good story as to why he gave a key. You know he's getting sued. Bad deal.
preacher1
preacher1 2
If he don't he'll miss a good chance.lol
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 5
If he has previously let him fly it solo (and it is a twin) he is in hot water.
Pilotguyr6
Pilotguyr6 5
Technically he could get his private in a twin and solo in it. Not the best idea, but possible.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 2
You may be right. I thought you had to have a MEL rating before flying solo.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Yeah, that was the thing, that it was a twin instead of the single, BUT, if it had the key in it, he's probably hung.
chicoaggie
Tim Smith 3
Not sure about the twin comanche, but the piper seminole only requires keys to unlock the door...and doesn't need a key to start the engines. Can't imagine the comanche being different.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Tim: you are probably right but even at that, he had a key to get in it and apparently security access to where it was parked; but a low time pilot, dark, and wx was a recipe for disaster
nickpiszczek
nicholas piszczek 1
Historically Young people interested in aviation have always been taken under wing by older types interested in seeing them pursue aviation as a vocation. It happens on every General Aviation field in the country..everyday. Assess (Keys/Codes) are sometimes given to youth who wash bugs off, perform simple maintenance and look after things as a way of giving them an opportunity around the field to help out and get a flight here and there. This is as old as aviation itself...What's also old is kids taking the family car for a joy ride..young boys who have no fatherly figure around and the temptation to impress your buddies. Its doubtful that the owner had any clue what was coming or even remotely hinted at giving this teenager permission to fly. Anyone in aviation knows it would have been an instant death sentence...debating the cause of the crash is pointless.
linbb
Boyd Butler 2
They are quite a handful for a pilot who has time in them, for a new pilot its an accident waiting to happen. Get too slow and they are done.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
W, do you know if you can be signed off for solo in a twin with only a student license? Obviously you can't carry pax on a stu license no matter what. Even if possible, I would bet against it as being the case.
preacher1
preacher1 1
I think you can. Very unusual and difficult but I think it can be done.
jhendrix
Jeff Hendrix 1
You need a minimum of 10 hours solo to get your first private pilot license (either single or multiengine). So according to the FARs, you can solo in a multiengine, the problem is I don't know of an insurance company that will insure a pilot to fly a twin without already having a multiengine rating. Which is why everyone I know that has a ME rating does their solo in a single, gets their private, and then the required training to add on a ME rating (which doesn't need solo time).
pclark
Peter Clark 1
See FAR part 61.109(b) - as far as I'm aware you can get an AMEL without having an ASEL certificate. Not the recommended way but the path is there. You can only legally fly multi-engine airplanes with it. I went ASEL-Inst-AMEL/CP myself.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
I do see where you can get ME concurrent with private. I don't see where it allows multi time solo, only hours of training time in multi. So when the man let him use the plane hopefully it was training only. I still think the owner may have a pack of trouble. Guess it really don't matter. The FARs weren't in play anyhow.
cverbil
cverbil 1
Yes, you can start as a Student Pilot, train only in a multi-engine aircraft, and **legally** be signed off for solo operations in that category and class of aircraft. HOWEVER, there isn't an insurance company in the world that would allow solo operations by a student pilot.

Legal? Yes. Realistic? No.

My viewpoint as an ATP/CFI/IA/ME/SE.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
Interesting. I almost always learn something on these threads. Lots of people think we shouldn't comment since we don't really know all the circumstances, and we don't, but lots of good opinions and quite a bit of knowledge can surface. Thanks for yours.
nickpiszczek
nicholas piszczek 2
True statement...I would never ever have known what Wallace24 points out...quite a surprise to me.
captainjman
Jason Feldman 1
I remember a whole back there was a student learning on a king air 200!! He purchased the plane and had his CFI take delivery from the factory new. People with too much money and not enough brains make really bad decisions. I would never want to instruct a student pilot for his private in anything but a simple SEL.

I guess since military trains in complex aircraft it is possible to do. In just a few hours they are put in extremely high performance aircraft

But, if the pilot was just a student most likely not learning on a twin - with access an keys for the plane - 99.99% chance he shouldn't have had flown in it except a ride along - why did he have keys then? Perhaps the kid told a story about flying the plane?

The whole story seems very weird. As I was reading it I kept going through the possible fars
fixnflyr
Swaid Rahn 2
Everyone here is so gullible. Everyone here is accepting the news story as fact. Maybe the boy stole the key and told his mon he was given a key. Maybe he had access to the airport as a student pilot to fly single engine trainers. Maybe he rode as a passenger in the PA-30 and could not log time. Everything in the story is not proven to be fact and we are all speculating. This is what drives more regulations that will not fix stupid.
It is not the parent's fought. Most 17 year old people are able to make adult decisions. I feel he knew he was not supposed to take that plane and he had to suffer the consequences. I am not trying to be hard but people have to be held responsible for their own actions and not blame someone else.
I feel sorry for the family in the wake of this tragedy and will pray for them.
fixnflyr
Swaid Rahn 2
I have yet to see the news media get anything correct on an aviation accident report. Most things that are fact are spun out of context and become misleading. I perfer to wait for the NTSB report for real information, they don't have to worry about selling advertising space and can focus on getting the true story.
jetlagged
Martin Weaver 2
Yeah, he showed great promise, but to whom? This crash can be traced to Mommie.
dww1935
Donald West 2
The first thing that a flight instructor MUST teach his student is the old adage, "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old, bold pilots."
pracines
Paul Racines 2
I wonder if ( and would not be suprised if ) any of the people who died in the crash (especially the pilot) were Microsoft Flight users. The reason I wonder because that game is free and it promotes unrealistic,foolish, and deadly aviation practices. I was about 20 years old (about 25 years ago) when I was going for my PPL and I would not even think of flying as a student with passengers and/or with no flight plan in IFR, at night, and most especially w/o my instructor who would know my abilities. These days there seems to be no difference between fantasy and reality within many minds, young and old, and its going to get worse as long as gaming software companies and movie makers keep making such ignorant, violent, foolish, products that glorify lawlessness and carelessness. And then you have parents who allow such trash to enter the minds of the poor kids.

Me.... I expect much worse in the future until people in authority get wisdom from above.
hiflier32
ric lang 2
What the Hell is all this rhetoric about? Not only are we yet again exposed to incredibly poor editorial by the newspaper's reporters, but look at whatever facts are prevalent: A STUDENT pilot, takes a twin with 2 pax flying in what I may assume was IMC, and crashes. The mother says "He was granted a schlorship"? For what? Being able to kill a few of his friends? One test short of acquiring his Private? What test whould that be? How to steal a twin? How to fly a twin? How to fly a twin in IMC? How to kill your friends? He deserved to die. His friends did not!!!
VE7JTE
James Traynor 2
My God give the key to the gun cabinet and add some friends and wa-la we have a problem.
Yes we wont to see our children go some were in life but this is not the place to be. The whole system is a mess with family problems and down stream it goes.

May God welcome them with open arms and other learn from there mistakes

I’m sorry for all your losses.
meister808
Keith VanLierop 2
Who's to say the kid didn't know the owner and have an arrangement to 'borrow' the aircraft to recieve instruction in it? No different than any lease-back arrangement, and it wouldn't involve the owner giving the kid carte blanche to go take the airplane in clear violation of just about every regulation possible, either. Let's not throw the owner under the bus for what is surely a tragic outcome to the classic bag of luck running out before there's much to pull out of the bag of experience.
38Luscombe
Chris Fraser 2
Looks like a classic accident chain... Complex and probably high performance aircraft which was too much for the pilot, illegally flying it and his passengers, late night flight, probably tired and excited, less than friendly weather, distractions in the cabin. He probably got into IFR conditions, panicked and had CFIT (controlled flight into terrain). It's tragic, but a little common sense could have prevented this. He was probably pressured by his friends, but that is no excuse, if you don't feel good about something in the flight you should call a no go... My apologies to the families of the deceased.
JHunt21
Justin Hunt 2
It sounds to me like the parents let him do what he wanted to. No parent should have allowed complete access the way she did.
preacher1
preacher1 2
There is a post under NEW SQUAKS that just posted last night that has a response from the owner. Nothing uexpected though.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
It's fault not fought...
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Where do you get Microsoft Flight Sim for free? You can't generalize the Flight Sim users and say they are doing foolish and deadly practices because of it. Maybe some who do it for a hobby or the thrill of it might, but for the most part it actually helps peoiple get through their ratings by teaching procedures. I know of quite a few people that it helped, including my son who blasted through his private at 17 last year, and is now almost done with his instrument. It is a good and cheap learning tool, but it's up to the user.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Are we gullible to accept that 3 teenagers are found dead in the wreckage of an unregistered 2 engine aircraft that went down in the late evening hours? If so, then I will cop to being gullible. I suppose the teens could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time and the aircraft just fell on them. While the latter wide ranging speculation and commentary goes will with a grain or two of salt, it is interesting and educational.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
I don't think any of the wise people on here are accepting the story as "gospel". Just giving their comments "if" it is true. If parts are untrue there will be further comments I'm sure.
preacher1
preacher1 1
As I said below, there is a lot more here than being told and that part we'll probably never hear about.

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 2
Nah, the saying is not wrong, just may need amending.LOL. Lots of times that BOLD equates to STUPID.LOL
nickpiszczek
nicholas piszczek 2
Its all pretty clear, stupidity rules the day again and we comment about it...I guess.

This type of crap has gone on for so long I'm pretty sure that getting upset about is just not very useful... Its just a daily affair quite frankly.
nickpiszczek
nicholas piszczek 1
Agreed. Its just a commentary board....you make comments. There's no big delusional agenda here.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
Doubt the NTSB will be swayed by us. Lol
delos
Delos Johnson 1
colinpayette
Colin Payette 1
Worst pictures for a story ever.
JHunt21
Justin Hunt 1
It sounds to me like the parents let him do what he wanted to. No parent should have allowed complete access the way she did.
num1tailhooker
Lucio DiLoreto 1
The family is in denial. How could anyone believe that the pilot was given permission to fly this airplane model at the time when he did? As the previous person commented, every aspect of the flight was new or dangerous to the pilot. Anyone of these factors could have resulted in an accident. But with so many factors stacked against the pilot, he had no chance to survive this flight.
jmacado
Joel McDonald 1
From experience being a SEL, Instrument, Commercial pilot the training you receive during your time as a Student Pilot on instruments, is just enough to get you out of the tough situations if you get in them by chance. Flying at night and running into the clouds, even as an Instrument rated pilot can sometimes through you off. You do learn to go immediately to your instruments after you get enough experience, but that's the thing. I do feel sorry for his friends who flew with him, even though a student pilot knows that other than your instructor or someone giving you a check ride, that is against every FAR in the book. My first experience in a MEL was tense. You have 4 times the things to look at, not just double with 2 engines. Everything happens twice as fast, twice as often. The best thing I learned in all my flight training is that you have to know when to go and when not to go. This was a great time to have just said no.
flygirl620se
Sharon Stewart 1
This is a sad and tragic accident that every student pilot should hear about. One of the first things we learned as student pilots are THE RULES. Who was this kids CFI? What ahole would give a teenage student pilot the keys to an aircraft he is not qualified to fly or any aircraft for that matter? Bad judgement all the way around resulting in the deaths of 2innocent passengers.
nickpiszczek
nicholas piszczek 1
Pretty clear. Not much to say other then the obvious. On another note: whats a responsible adult giving a key to a kid for a twin engine aircraft? You don't think there's a problem? Thats why we have keys...Keys are trust. If this kid flew this thing with permission from the owner on a solo run..I hope the owner loses his ticket.
dww1935
Donald West 1
On the wall at the former Naval Fighter Weapons School (aka Top Gun) at NAS Miramar, San Diego, there is a sign that reads:

“Under pressure, you do not rise to the occasion; rather you sink to your level of training.”

In this case, and in other words "When the SHTF" The boy never had a chance...
alanburns
alan burns 1
One of the local articles said that the aircraft had no current registration either. How was he able to fly it all legally since the plane was purchased by the current owners last spring.
smoki
smoki 1
And what is the number one cause of pilot error accidents regardless of the circumstances? In a word: Stupidity! It can be lethal. The physical law that applies? The law of gravitation. Gravity will always win, Always!
captain4004
Craig Lewis 1
Way too complex for a rookie to be flying and he found out the hard way, this is a lesson you get to learn only one time.
tangobob
Bob Sherry 1
When it comes to mixing testosterone with flying, flying wins every time. Including the time you got "lucky" which only sets you up for your next (and only) fatal flight!
nickpiszczek
nicholas piszczek 1
I will weigh in on the side of the owner. The following is Speculation for sure...But I believe this to be the Mothers... "My son Could do no wrong Syndrome." The seductive nature of aviation and the impression it can leave on young boys/men will tempt them to do some pretty outrageous things especially where it denotes status and respect of their peers/friends..Teenagers take the car for a joy ride all the time without asking, I see no difference with GA and access to an aircraft. I have been around hangers since I was 8 years old and I can tell you I was tempted on more then one occasion but my father and other caring fatherly figures with a strong presence in my life repressed those thoughts .A careful look here will probably find a lack of exactly that in this kids life...lack of a father...and now a mothers grief will explain it away.
FedExCargoPilot
FedExCargoPilot 1
Ultimately the teen is at fault, and ruining his life and the lives of two others who had a full life ahead of them. But I look down on the flight school and the instructor that did not break the "invisibility" that some not all teens have because they lack life experiences. Letting him fly high performance airplane before a SEL PPL certificate and promising him his own plane as a new plane with the amount of time he has? Its a little ridiculous.
macfly
macfly 1
Several comments about insurance, and unfortunately there are companies that will insure students in twins, just like there ones that will insure brand new multi pilots in King Airs or even the Citation Mustang, and you would surprised how affordable it may actually be. The FAR's allow you to obtain Private Multi, just like you can get a VFR only type rating in Lear Jet or Hawker like the Jenni Rivera pilot had, but that has not made very public. So how to you fly a Lr 25 VFR only at FL280. Oh, well, pilots regardless of their qualifications continue to make poor decisions, and sometimes it cost them the rest of their life.
fairway3610
Keith Lowe 1
Great promise is not defined by a student pilot attempting to fly a plane below minimums which he is not checked out in. Stealing is taking something without permission.
linbb
Boyd Butler 1
This is an old post from last week. Reposted again.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Hasn't been anything said about the owner yet. That's what will be interesting. With all this he can't claim STOLEN or UNAUTHORIZED USE and the very least of his worries will be something from the FAA as I'm sure there will be a lawsuit or 3 coming his way.
preacher1
preacher1 1
It just seems to me that there is a whole lot more to this story than what is told in this first article. The followup is what will be more informative and probably what we'll never hear about.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
The Alabama State Bar has about 15,700 in-state members, and 2,500 out of state members. With 3 dead teenagers and 18,000 lawyers....
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 1
It is disturbing that three young men died because adults did not secure the aircraft. My condolences to the families of the victims.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Ric: I think we can narrow down to one, the plane owner that gave him access. According to the story, the boy had security access and a key to get in the plane.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 2
Unfortunately this is sort of like the school shooting at Sandy hook. Mother allowed mentally disturbed son access to guns. According to the story this man allowed this young man access to a plane he had no business flying.
n7224e
BC Hadley 1
Having access is not the same as having permission. Either way, heartbreaking for at least three families.
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 0
I would also think the parents, and the access system at the airport need scruitny. Children under 18 are the primary responsibility of the parent, but owners of planes should make secure. I cannot see any reason for any child to have access, unescorted, to airside of any airport.
ahbeja
Jason Ahbe -1
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Mom: Boy didn't steal plane in crash

JASPER, Ala. (AP) -- A teen pilot killed along with two friends in an Alabama plane crash had his own key to the aircraft and had flown it many times, his mother said Wednesday, denying authorities' assertion that the plane had been taken without permission.

http://www.9news.com/news/world/308142/347/Mom-Boy-didnt-steal-plane-in-crash-
stbernardpass
Jackie Butcher 0
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Alabama Teenager Fatally Injured In Accident Did Not 'Steal' The Airplane

The real tragedy of this story is that a young man who was said to be a checkride away from getting his private pilot certificate was fatally injured on Tuesday night along with two of his friends apparently doing something he should have known better than to do. The 17-year-old was reportedly piloting a Piper PA 30 Twin Comanche that, according to his mother, he "had used many tim

http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=47cccd8e-263c-45bb-a8b3-2317614b9e5d
mattcwell
Matt Caldwell 0
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Alabama: Unlicensed Teenage Pilot and 2 Passengers Die in Crash

An unlicensed 17-year-old was reportedly at the controls of what The Associated Press is reporting was a Piper PA30 Twin Comanche that crashed Tuesday evening in Alabama, killing him and his two teenaged passengers

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/03/us/alabama-teenage-pilot-and-2-passengers-die-in-crash.html?_r=2&;
skyhawk101
Robert Wakefield 0
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Teen Student Pilot and two friends die in crash Alabama.

17-year-old son Jordan Smith was the one flying the plane that went down in the Alabama woods Tuesday night. The Federal Aviation Administration said the Piper PA 30 crashed less than a mile from the Walker County Airport in Jasper, which is northwest of Birmingham.

http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/01/mother_of_teen_pilot_killed_in.html